Sharing

[arbilad]

We've had this discussion on my forum and I was interested to see the response here. Will you be sharing your food storage when the fecal matter hits the rotary oscillator? When everyone's starving to death, will you open your pantry and provide to people? If so, will you set limits on who you'll help? What categories of people will you help and which will you not help?
Also, do you believe that when the time comes to live off of food storage that the Bishop will gather everyone's year supply together and divvy it up amongst everyone according to need? Or do you think that it will be everyone for themselves, and if you didn't store anything, oh well, you were warned?

[Cowboy]

You have to define sharing. I will share with my family, friends and those whom the bishop or stake president ask me to share with.

I will not share with those who come to take by force. (I will share some hollow point projectiles)

Food storage is for the purpose of keeping you (and others) alive to do the work of the Lord. So many people get caught into the fact that food storage is the only way I will be saved. No way. You could have 10 years of food and die of a heart attack tomorrow. The key is to have the food AND be spiritually ready for what is to come. That is the only way the Lord can use you. Just having food just means that it may go to help someone else stay alive that is ready to push the work forward because your services may be better suited on the other side of the veil. When it comes down to it, sharing with those whom the Lord deems worthy may be the spiritual test we have to prove we are worthy to push the work forward.

[phylm]

Well put, Cowboy. Thanks.

[prairiemom]

Also, do you believe that when the time comes to live off of food storage that the Bishop will gather everyone's year supply together and divvy it up amongst everyone according to need? Or do you think that it will be everyone for themselves, and if you didn't store anything, oh well, you were warned?

He better not! He's one of the people in our ward who admits to having zero FS. I just fail to see how doing this is compatible with other gospel principles--stewardship, obedience, self-sufficiency, etc, not to mention the parable of the 10 virgins.

Every year, at least twice a year, I hold a "canning party". I rent the local community center ($25--great deal!). It has 2 stoves, 2 sinks and tons of counters and tables space. I invite everyone in my area to come can with me. If you don't know how to can, I'll teach you. I've done this six times. Better not no one who never came to that canning party come ask me for food.

Every year I have more apples on my trees than I can ever use. I've begged, pleaded, even bribed people to come pick my apples. I've told them "I'll help you can, make applesauce, apple juice, etc. You can even use my dehydrator." No one has ever come. Better not no one who never came to pick apples come asking me for food.

Every year I hold a stake preparedness fair. This year we invited the community. We had 65-75 people attend--better attendance than last year, but not at all what it should have been. Better not no one who never came to a Preparedness Fair come asking me for food.

Do I sound mean and selfish? I'd like to think not, but I'll let you judge. Will I let them starve? No--they will still be welcome to come pick apples. If they don't have room for a garden, I'll let them plant a garden on my land. I even have seeds I'll let them use. We have 4 acres of land--I'll let them hunt deer on our land. I am happy to help anyone who wants to do for themselves, but I won't hand it to them.

In any case, I don't believe food storage is about having buckets of food. I believe it is a principle of faith--like tithing and the Word of Wisdom. They have physical manifestations (money, not smoking, etc) but the real purpose is spiritual and the true blessing are spiritual. I can't pay your tithing for you, I can't keep the WoW for you. I could try, but would you enjoy any of the blessings of those principles?

Provident Living is about seeing God's abundance in our lives everyday and putting aside a portion of that abundance for time of need. None of us wants for anything right now, we are richly blessed every day. But those who always want more, regardless of how much the Lord gives them, will never be satisfied and instead of seeing God's providence they covet more, more, more. They want the satelite TV instead of being grateful for the bread of that day, they want the vacation and don't notice their house is heated, they want new clothes and ignore the breath God gives them, disregard that He sustains them every day and His sustenance allows them to have every fine thing in life.

All it takes is one handful of food to be living providently. Just reserve back one handful of food everyday and you are living God's principle of provident living. Remember the widow of Zarapheth--Elijah came to her for bread and she said "I have only one handful of meal and a little oil." And that one handful was enough to sustain her, her son and the prophet.

I believe that if we have done all we can, whether we have a garage full of food or just one bucket of grain, if we have been consistently faithful to the Lord in this principle, we will not want. Those who have not been faithful may come and steal my food. They will have a full belly for a day or more, but it will be to their condemnation.

[sarge712]

Cowboy's right. Food storage is not the goal. Food storage is the means to the end, the end being keeping you fit to carry out the Lord's errand. Now just what is the Lord's errand? We all know the Sunday School answer but I also believe we each have our own specific roles to play as well and these are revealed via personal revelations. My wife's role in the Lord's plan is nurturing & healing, my bil's is building and peace-making, my mil's is teaching and nurturing. Mine is protecting and mentoring. My daughter's is nurturing and beautifying. However, you can't do his work if you are physically too weak to lift a hand.

Mirkwood has put it better than any other person I have read in that he has faith that he will be able to discern who to help but that this decision is his to make and that he won't be pressured or "guilt tripped" into it.

I am not sure how my stake president will respond (probably the same as our Bishop) but my bishop is a no nonsense real-life Arizona cowboy in his younger days that won't lean on anyone to share. Furthermore, he "can't stand rude behavior in a man." He "won't tolerate it." (what movie?). I can picture him jacking a round into his lever gun as I type this. Bishop is a little banty rooster with a bit more Porter Rockwell in him than people would expect in a Bishop. We love him.

I plan on eating less and fasting like Brother Brigham and his daughters did to spare food for others but I will not risk losing it all to the hungry hordes. Again, discernment will have to be our guide as to where we draw the line. Sharing may be noble but what about our stewardship to our family? Can we both share withg all comers and still maintain our stewardship? I doubt it. At my daughter's soccer practice the other day I was observing all the people at the fields and imagining them all without food and it saddened me beyond belief. Just that many, 150 or so, would be devastating to anyone's storage. I just told my wife I prayed we would have a loaves and fishes miracle so we could carry our disobedient family members.

[thermocouple]

This is a tough question. I will certainly not share with anyone who thinks to demand food or take it by force, we have the means to defend ourselves to be sure. At one time I thought that I would not share with families who did not bother to heed the warnings and prepare for their own families. I thought that I would not share with those who chose to spend their money on frivilous toys and vacations while we sacrificed such luxuries. I am terrified of seeing my wife and children suffer, by starvation or otherwise. But those feelings force me to realize that our Heavenly Father feels the same about seeing us suffer, including the families who did not make their own preparations. I believe that I will feel spiritually inclined to help those who ask in humility, to whatever degree I am capable, and trust that the Lord will see us through for our faith. Violent demands however will be answered with the barrel of a gun.

[thor610]

Yes, I will share. I will not allow any hungry person or animal to leave my doorstep when I have the ability to feed them.

[LarnaE]

One thing that I remind myself of over and over is that my food storage does not belong to me. It belongs to Heavenly Father. I need to be prepared to do whatever he asks me to do with it. This will be a big test for many people. We may be asked to share our food with people who we really don't want to share it with. I think that the decision to share or not to share food storage needs to be made on a case by case basis using the Spirit and following the prophet.

[LoudmouthMormon]

My answer depends on the situation. If I've got enough to share (i.e. we're snowed in for a month), then I'm happy sharing.

If my family might starve if I share (i.e., we're bunkering down for 8 months while the rest of the world is catching rampaging bird flu), we won't be sharing unless directed otherwise by the spirit.

If we're all gonna die regardless (i.e. the earth is crashing into the sun and all the plant life and animal life has died), then there's nobody we'd rather die with than my Catholic neighbor and his 10 kids.

If there's a zombie uprising, I plan on being the last person left alive, and I will just be able to get whatever I need by using the chainsaw grafted onto my arm to cut into all the walmarts.

LM

[level3Navigator]

You have multiple situations here, all of which merit a different reaction. I ask you this right now: are you sharing your food storage? You bought that wheat at $5.00 for a 50 lb bag a few years ago, because you listened and obeyed, and now the prices are much higher... so why not just go to your neighbors with a bucket of wheat each and give it to them? Yeah, you won't have enough for your family for one year, now, but they will have a little, right?

Obviously, sharing your food storage right now is not happening, nor should it, but I do note that all of us are very actively engaged in sharing in other ways: we offer to help people can, we offer to teach them how to grow a garden, we offer to help them learn how to use a firearm. So we ARE sharing right now.

I don't suppose it will be much different when times get leaner. There will still be plenty of people who opt for keeping their boats and vacation plans and who will end up having to pay the higher price when the wheat goes up. Their choice, and they are welcome to it. They can trade me some of their time and work later on if they need to in order to "pay" for my fresh bread. Why on earth would any person be entitled to my effort, my labor, and the fruits of my obedience when they had the same opportunity as I to listen and obey? Will I also be expected to pay off their credit cards? Pay for their boats and RVs? For their breast enhancements and tummy tucks? Pay for their jewelry and baubles?

Now there is also the principle of the fast offering, and this is something I fully intend on doing. There will always be those deserving of a hand up (NOT a hand out), and as directed by the Spirit and/or priesthood authority, I will be happy (joyous!) to help them out. But don't come to me with one hand out and the other empty (or clenched in a fist). Two principles here: 1. The laborer will always be worthy of his hire. 2. There will always be the widow and the fatherless among us. These are eternal principles and those who ignore either one of them are deluding themselves.

Because the church has told us to get food storage does not mean a bishop or stake president has full claim upon the food storage. The storage becomes our stewardship as a consequence of our obedience. So these scenarios where the bishop / stake president has everyone bring their food storage to divide up is a red herring. We might be asked to help feed a family (we do that already), or to help house a family (we do that already), but for you to give up your entire stewardship? I don't think that is ever going to happen.

Be prepared to help people learn how to live a more frugal life, though. That always has and always will be asked of us. But I don't worry much about all my hard work going down the socialism drain. The Lord has not ever worked that way. Understand that when things were REALLY tough during the Missouri extermination, there were those who did not make the voyage across the plains to Utah because they were not prepared to do so, either spiritually or physically. It won't be much different in our day. Those are the consequences, both temporal and eternal.

[sarge712]

[quote=level3Navigator;4239] But I don't worry much about all my hard work going down the socialism drain. The Lord has not ever worked that way. quote]

Thank you for that. Amen

[mirkwood]

A man I know spoke to a General Authority (who was his mission president at one time) about this topic. He told him a number of things. One was that no bishop/stake president acting in righteousness will "collect up" everyones food storage for re-distribution. He also told this man to ask anyone who promotes this idea if he could see their food storage. He was told that the people who are promoting this concept have little or no storage.

That is not the stewardship of the bishop/stake president. They can come ask me and I will enquire of the Lord myself and see if we receive the same answer. If we do...no problem sharing.

[Abinadi]

Who's food and things on this earth is this anyways? Its the Lords and if one feels prompted to share then do it. How do we know right now that it won't be us begging...what if our stuff was lost in a disaster and there we are with nothing to eat or anything but what we have on our backs. I would be coming to you for something to eat as you would I hope come to me for food as well. I would be most glad to feed you.

If you come to the door an orney sort then prayer is going into action right now as well.

I let the Lord decide who eats HIS food...have faith to do HIS will.

Abinadi

[Molly]

When I buy for food storage, I buy with the thought in mind that I will be sharing. There maybe some stubborn parents out there that have children. As a example, I am RS president in my ward. My secretary came right out & said to me, that in no way was she interested in preparedness. That was said, after I gave a class on food storage. Since then I have done 2 classes on the pandemic & had a C.E.R.T class. The only class she came to was the food storage class. Since then there has been no support on her part. I have had group buys on several things. We also, go to the cannery. Has she bought anything from the group buys? NO! Has she gone or ordered anything from the cannery? NO! WIll I share my food storage with her? YES! She has samll children. Besides, do any of us do everything we are told to do. I am sad that she hasn't committed herself to complete obedience. She is a wonderful person & a very good secretary. Not only will I share with her chlldren, but with her also. We don't know the reasons why people do what they do & who are we to judge. I love what Brother J. Featherson said, "We don't have to share, we get to share." I just pray that we all can continue to be obedient to the Lord and love our enemies, they just hate it.

Molly

[arbilad]

I will share with whomever the Lord tells me to share with. But I think that it's the expectation of sharing that is so spiritually damaging to people who aren't working on getting their storage.
There are real blessings associated with listening to the Lord and getting your food storage. There are real punishments associated with not doing it. It's a spiritual commandment, and you can no more live it for your secretary than you can live the law of tithing for her. Sure, you can share some of the temporal blessings when the time comes, but the spiritual damage of disobedience will have been done.

[Molly]

I will share with whomever the Lord tells me to share with. But I think that it's the expectation of sharing that is so spiritually damaging to people who aren't working on getting their storage.
There are real blessings associated with listening to the Lord and getting your food storage. There are real punishments associated with not doing it. It's a spiritual commandment, and you can no more live it for your secretary than you can live the law of tithing for her. Sure, you can share some of the temporal blessings when the time comes, but the spiritual damage of disobedience will have been done.


I agree with you 100%. Like I said, I am sad that she isn't being obedient. She has never said, that she expects anyone to share with her. I don't know her feelings on that. To me if you have no interest in food storage, then you must not believe that anything will happen to require that you use it. It isn't doing it because something is going to happen, it's doing it because we have been told by our prophet to have our 3 month supply. That word obedient is the key. I did a survey last October & 76% of our ward members have their food storage of 3 months or more. I do feel that the % is even more now. The thing that bothered me the most of what my secretary said, was that she was not interested in food storage. I have heard many other reasons, but ever have I heard that they weren't interested. When I did the pandemic class, I had her help me put together some information to hand out. She said, she didn't want to know anything about it, that it was too horrible. So, maybe that is the key with her, FEAR. What ever her reasons are or anyone else, it will be a sad day, that they didn't have more trust in the Lord. All I can do is continue to pray for her.

[prairiemom]

But I think that it's the expectation of sharing that is so spiritually damaging to people who aren't working on getting their storage.

That's the part that bothers me every time this discussion arises. I've seen this discussion at least 2-3 times a yr on just about every LDS board I've been to.

First, it bothers me that so many members think they have nothing to worry about because there will be sharing. I don't know how wide-spread that feeling is among the non-storagers, but it must be there. It bothers me that some think they should not suffer any of the consequences of their decisions. Whether it's the storagers who store with the idea that they will bail out the disobedient or the non-storagers who think they can rely on the goodness of their storaging friends. Either way, it looks to me a complete disregard for the Lord's commands and the Law of the Harvest.

Don't get me wrong--I don't want my friends and family to starve, I will do all I can to see that that doesn't happen. But I worry that our initial response is "we don't care if they obeyed or not, we're going to feed everyone no matter what." I'm sure that's not what Noah was thinking as everyone was banging on the ark, begging to come aboard. I wouldn't want to have been Noah then, either.

Second, that we think FS is only for some doomsday, end-times apocalypse. For me it's more a process of developing faith and being self-reliant and prepared for disaster--personal, local or worldwide. It's far more likely that our FS will be used during personal or localized disasters.

Third, let's be honest, in case of world-wide calamity, how long do you honestly believe anyone will possess FS once it is known one person or a small group of people have food when no one else does?

Lastly, I don't think we who do FS should assume that those who do not do FS will always be non-storagers. I don't believe any group is static, there is always a chance someone will repent in time.

I don't know, this is a recurring discussion that I don't think has any right answers and can be divisive. JMHO.

[NRA]

One thing that I don't believe I've heard mentioned is the separation of the wheat from the tares. Who's to say that when the Lord starts cleansing (His own house first) that the tares won't be bundled up and burned? It just may be that we won't have to worry about sharing with those that some of you seem worried about sharing with? I'm not saying that this will happen but maybe, just maybe, there could be destroyed? Just a thought.

[sarge712]

My other mom (the Cherokee lady here who adopted me into her huge brood & who convinced my mil into allowing me to marry her daughter) once told me that she stored food because she couldn't abide the thought of seeing her children starve. That image has always stuck with me and has driven me forward when my resolve has flagged. I use this imagery to plant a seed.

[LoudmouthMormon]

One thing that I don't believe I've heard mentioned is the separation of the wheat from the tares.Certainly a valid thing to consider. Noah's ark would have capsized if they threw a lifepreserver to every mother and child that happened to be drowning close by.

I wonder if the Jews living in Egypt let any of their friendly egyptian neighbor kids sleep over on the night of passover.

Again, the situation matters, and the direction of the spirit matters.

LM

[thor610]

I know a good woman in the church, who when she learned that I had gone to the cannery and stocked up on supplies asked me if I would ever be willing to share someday if someone was in need. I said yes. She herself didn't want to stock up on food storage because she didn't want to share.

When I share my food storage, it won't be by handing out a can of this or a can of that. It will be by inviting people to come with bowls and spoons and serving them stew or soup. In hard times, stew and soup is the easiest, simplest and most nourishing food to prepare and have on hand at all times. Will I have enough for everyone? If times are so bad that people are knocking on your door for food, then it is also a time for miracles. I think of the story of Elijah who didn't ask the widow woman for a sack of flour. He asked her to prepare something for him. In return her supplies became neverending.

[bokbadok]

I know a good woman in the church, who when she learned that I had gone to the cannery and stocked up on supplies asked me if I would ever be willing to share someday if someone was in need. I said yes. She herself didn't want to stock up on food storage because she didn't want to share.

So... does she want others to share with her? I so do not get that kind of thinking.

[thor610]

So... does she want others to share with her? I so do not get that kind of thinking.

I didn't get it either. It seems a vicious circle to me. You don't want to share, so you don't prepare. Yet, at the same time, you expect other people to share when you haven't prepared on purpose because you didn't want to share. Huh?

I concluded that something else was going on with her and she just had other reasons. Fear keeps a lot of people from doing things.

[Abinadi]

Let me throw a hide into this okay.
How about someone who did all the Lord asked...the food is up and all preparations are in. Next they are awakened in the middle of the night and they have to evacuate and everything they have stored is gone and in the confusion they are separated, one child is handicaped and another is deaf...you are struggling to find your family. Then in the mist of it, you find your spouse dead, so if someone it was you or someone who knocked on your door in the dark of the night would you take them in and go assist?
What if this family had no food storage because their medical bills ate it up. What if one of the children was being treated for cancer?
Would you take them in?
Just some thoughts I am thinking as I read this thread.
My door is always open to someone in need. To someone who didn't prepare and could have...and they come to my door, I have work for them to do so they may have food. I believe it was Joseph Smith who had a man dig a post hole and another to pay for his needs.
Maybe in a disaster they would get a real awakening, a real reality slap that may humble them to where they make a change and somehow a miracle accures for them, wither its us or someone else who helps. Maybe they wake up and become helpful to us when we use Christ like through the spirit converstation with them.
What if they were inactive due to illness? Inactive due to tough feelings with someone and when they realized their situation strived with all their hearts to change?
Oh I hope you understand where I am coming from here and I am not misunderstood, just offering another area of thought is all.
Abinadi

[prairiemom]

See, I don't think you need to have a complete yr's supply (or 2 yr's or whatever). I don't think it's about how MUCH you have (the outcome). I think that whether or not the Lord sustains you during a disaster depends on whether or not you TRIED to do get as much as you could (the process or the principle). You had huge medical bills, but you bought everything you could on your limited budget, so all you could afford was a case of tuna. But you were 100% obedient to the principle of Provident Living and the Lord will make that case of tuna last. You had a flood that wiped out your food storage. But you obeyed the principle 100% and the Lord will make whatever crumbs are left last you. You were filthy rich and only bought 1 yr's supply when you could have had 2 or 3 or could have helped a family in need get their FS, then that 1 yr's supply will not sustain you.

IOW, I don't think whether or not we have "enough" FS can be counted by the number of cans or lbs of wheat we have stored. I think "enough" is measured by our faithfulness to the principle, our willingness to do all we can within the financial, space, logistic limitations we had.

That's why I said that I can't pay someone's tithing, I can't keep the WoW for you and I can't help you live the principles of Preparedness. We don't need money (or wheat or a garage full of food) to live that principle. The principle is that when we faithfully find (and store) from the bounty God gives us everyday, God will always sustain us during the times of famine.

The Lord ALWAYS gives years of plenty before famine. The principle of Provident Living commands us to find the Plenty and store it. It might not be money or food, but it might be time and we use that time to learn to make bread or learn to sew or can or dehydrate. The plenty might be a neighbor who has extra veggies in his garden he's giving away. Or it might be a tax return, whatever. The plenty might be so small as to be almost unnoticeable--just one can of soup or 1 cup of rice and beans--but we CAN find plenty everyday and we need to put a portion of that by.

[FollowTruth]

Some of you may have read the newsletter with Marti Grobecker's article "Why Prepare?". She approached preparing from a spiritual angle and did so in an admirable way.

I'm attaching the pdf file here in case someone would like to read it.

FT

[mirkwood]

Let me throw a hide into this okay.
How about someone who did all the Lord asked...the food is up and all preparations are in. Next they are awakened in the middle of the night and they have to evacuate and everything they have stored is gone and in the confusion they are separated, one child is handicaped and another is deaf...you are struggling to find your family. Then in the mist of it, you find your spouse dead, so if someone it was you or someone who knocked on your door in the dark of the night would you take them in and go assist?
What if this family had no food storage because their medical bills ate it up. What if one of the children was being treated for cancer?
Would you take them in?
Just some thoughts I am thinking as I read this thread.
My door is always open to someone in need. To someone who didn't prepare and could have...and they come to my door, I have work for them to do so they may have food. I believe it was Joseph Smith who had a man dig a post hole and another to pay for his needs.
Maybe in a disaster they would get a real awakening, a real reality slap that may humble them to where they make a change and somehow a miracle accures for them, wither its us or someone else who helps. Maybe they wake up and become helpful to us when we use Christ like through the spirit converstation with them.
What if they were inactive due to illness? Inactive due to tough feelings with someone and when they realized their situation strived with all their hearts to change?
Oh I hope you understand where I am coming from here and I am not misunderstood, just offering another area of thought is all.
Abinadi



This is where I feel the spirit will prompt my actions and what they are to be.

[Abinadi]

I can not read the paper you put up at all.

Abinadi

[FollowTruth]

I can not read the paper you put up at all.

AbinadiAbinadi, are you referring to the newsletter I posted above? If so, you'll need Adobe Reader to view the pdf file. Oddly enough on my system it shows the newsletter was also uploaded into my previous post; I didn't expect that, I just thought my post would contain a link and that would be all.

MODS:
I'm still learning the idiosyncrasies of this new site. If one of the mods would like to remove the bandwidth-eating newsletter upload and just leave the pdf link that would be fine with me. It's what I thought I was doing in the first place.

FT