Food Storage Theft

[Poltax]

This will be a more common situation if things do not improve. All the more reason to not talk about your preps with your SP, Bishop, HT, RS Teachers, Quorum or Group Leaders, neighbors, and especially your relatives.
(http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19816#p236516)



http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1782412 ... rges-state (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=17824122&title=woman-stole-neighbors-food-storage-charges-state)


SALT LAKE CITY — A 56-year-old woman is facing charges of theft and burglary for allegedly stealing from her neighbor's food storage.

According to charges filed in 3rd District Court, the woman's neighbor reported to police that he was returning to his home on Sept. 30 when he saw his neighbor exiting the home. The woman was carrying two trash bags full of groceries.

When the man went into the house, he discovered a number of items missing from his food storage, the charges state. It is estimated the value of the food that was stolen did not exceed $500.

The woman, who is from Herriman, was charged with burglary, a second-degree felony, and theft, a class B misdemeanor.

[DMGNUT]

and........ it begins.

[Noahs ARK]

Makes me wonder if there will come a day when it isn't safe to ever leave your home unattended for fear your prep stuff will go missing.

I want a hidden basement!! :smash:

[Earthling]

There has been a rash of burglaries in our neighborhood - so I am already worried about leaving the house empty.

[Noahs ARK]

There has been a rash of burglaries in our neighborhood - so I am already worried about leaving the house empty.

I'd be worried, too.

Our ADT rep was here last Saturday to update our panels and install a couple new smoke alarms. We got to talking and you should hear the system he has installed in his house! Not just his house, but also his driveway.

He said when somebody pulls into his driveway, an alarm sounds in his house. If they don't back up and leave, another alarm goes off within 50 feet. At that point, he turns on his tv and gets a clear picture of exactly WHO is in his driveway.

Can you imagine having such a cool alarm system? Well...he has 4 daughters and he's a prepper, so it makes sense.

Anyhoo ~~ he said they've gotten busier than ever, especially in isolated areas. Alarm systems with cell back-up (that's what we have) are in big demand.

[constable01]

My stake patriarch has a system like that He is the founder of "Inteldex security" and www.Fourseasonssurvival.com (http://www.Fourseasonssurvival.com) only he's had a system like that since the 80's.

An alarm sounds when you pull in and he has a camera monitor system to see who's at the door.

Hey, whatever keeps you from having to try to scare away jehovah's witnesses in person is GTG with me.

[Ligure]

If you read the comments in the original article you will note that this person did not likely steal out of desperation or due to the signs of the times. The whole neighborhood knew of this person's mental illness of stealing just to steal. This is not new. Growing up in my ward their was a YW that had this problem. We discovered it after my mom asked her to babysit and she stole my mom's wedding rings. Its the gasoline thieves I am ore worried about. They are indeed desperate.

Ligure

[thermocouple]

All the more reason to not talk about your preps with your SP, Bishop, HT, RS Teachers, Quorum or Group Leaders, neighbors, and especially your relatives.
This is debatable. It seems to me a better route to take is to be judicious in who you share this information with. If they dont seem interested or inclined to prep themselves, then yes these are the people who will be coming to you for your preps when the time comes. On the other hand, completely isolating yourself is perhaps more dangerous. Some people can be developed, and parterships can be made.

[DMGNUT]

The longer I'm a member of this Church, it seems the softer my heart becomes (which is kind of annoying :smilewinkgrin:).
I make no secret of my preparedness efforts with church members (those who are willing to speak with me on the topic :001_rolleyes:), or even with nonmember co-workers.
I tell them if they feel this (meaning, my place) is where they need to be, just don't come empty handed.
If someone shows up needing help, I intend to help them as best I can.
However... If someone (or a group of some ones) shows up with ill intent, I intend to make this their last stop.
By no means am I the end all be all (nor do I want to be) when it comes to dispensing street justice.
But if someone takes it into their mind, that they can perpetrate wickedness, pain and suffering upon the innocent, then I will be glad they chose my home to stop at early on, rather than violating many others before they got here.
Hope that doesn't sound too "mean spirited".

[Poltax]

Thermo......yes my point is debatable about not discussing your preps with anyone else. I am in agreement to have "some or limited" trusted friends that you can count on if things get rough. Even then I have not informed those that are in my group of everything that I have set aside. As I am sure they have not informed me of everything thy have set aside. OPSEC even in your own group. Is that selfish? You never know about people until the real deal hits the fan. Then the true character of people will show thru. Do I have extra set aside for those that come calling and have not prepared? Yes I do, but there is a fine line, at some point you can not help everyone that comes along and not have supplies yourself. I just hope I have the Spirit with me to know what is the right move to make if that situation ever occurs.

Here would be a good example of what I was talking about. say you travel for a living and your not home much. Even your wife goes with you. Something happens and your area needs your supplies. Your out of town trying to return home. Some in your area know you have supplies. They dont see you around for 3 or 4 weeks. They are hungry and needing supplies. The Bishop, or good intending Priesthood leader, or RS Pres, decides they are going to liberate your supplies for the good of everyone else. Sadly after 5-6 weeks you make it home, knowing that you have supplies set aside, only to find that all your stuff has been taken. You have married children also trying to make their way to your home, ect ect. The situation just compounds.

This is a real deal situation that could occur. In fact it is my situation. I do have 4 families that I have trusted somewhat to know we prep. We have set up our own little group with in the area. We train together, discuss items, ect. They have all been instructed that my house is to be guarded and not touched by anyone until one of my married children shows up or I return home. Then supplies will be distributed out as needed.

My worst fear has been something happening and when I return home, all my supplies are gone and distributed out to others. Now having said all that, if I am unable to return home, or my married children are not able to show up. Then the group gets my supplies. This is the deal we have all made. Hopefully no one will get greedy. What is that saying, trust but verify.

[Earthling]

Hope that doesn't sound too "mean spirited".

It sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[mgriffith]

The Bishop, or good intending Priesthood leader, or RS Pres, decides they are going to liberate your supplies for the good of everyone else.

No Bishop or SP has the authority to institute the United Order in their area any more than they can re-install polygamy. The Brethren have said over and over again that the emergency preparedness program of the Church is individual and family self reliance.

I don't know of any disaster situation where a Bishop has purloined supplies from any members. They will help coordinate responses, and if someone wants to donate supplies, they will oversee the distribution, but they won't go to members homes and request they give it up.

Mark

[mirkwood]

I believe in a TEOTWAWKI scenario, fast offerings will become a donation of ____________ (fill in the blank).


I used to be compeltely closed mouth about preparedness. I did not discuss it with anyone. I started talking about it a lot, openly, to anyone and everyone. I felt a prompting that I needed to start talking about it. I was the Emergency Preparedness Specialist in my ward for 5 or 6 years and taught many many lessons on preparedness. I have been the Stake Welfare Specialist for about 2 years now, with an emphasis on preparedness, particularly ward emergency plans.

On the way home from Arizona last month I had a podcast on preparedness playing (Rawles interview). My wife was listening to it with me. One of the things he said was not to advertise and all the reaons we all have discussed before. My wife asked me, "why do you keep talking about it to everyone." I reminded her that I used to say nothing. I also reminded her that I had been prompted to start talking. Then I said, "look how many people have food storage and are working on preparedness in our stake because I listened to a prompting." In the first year in my ward the food storage average per family went from 2 weeks to 6 months. I don't say this as a "look at wonderful me" statement, but as a recognition of the blessing of obedience.

I am more likely to share now then I would have been years ago. I am still of the mindset that my family won't suffer because someone else was too rebellious to follow God's commandment.

Use of violence is not going to end well around me either.

[arbilad]

I only talk about mine in a limited way. I used to be more open, but felt a prompting to be more careful in how I talk about it.
I feel that it is an individual choice. There is no right answer for all people. I think in Mirk's case he was right to share about what he has stored. As you are always in the right when you follow a prompting from Heavenly Father.

[Earthling]

I used to teach classes and talk about it but the last few years I have felt I should "fade into the background" and not be who people think of when they think of preparedness. The stake asked me to teach a class but I was gratefully unavailable (out of town) at that time.

[Noahs ARK]

I used to teach classes and talk about it but the last few years I have felt I should "fade into the background" and not be who people think of when they think of preparedness.

I started getting that feeling about 1 year ago.

[4evermama]

Interesting that you would mention that Earthling.

I was recently asked to teach at a city wide preparedness event.
The moment the person asked me, I felt a prompting to decline the invitation...which is not like me at all. I usually enjoy helping out.
Repeatedly, I prayed about the decision--again and again, I was given the impression that I was to keep away from the event.

This need to "fade into the background" has grown stronger and stronger over the last year.

[Poltax]

No Bishop or SP has the authority to institute the United Order in their area any more than they can re-install polygamy. The Brethren have said over and over again that the emergency preparedness program of the Church is individual and family self reliance.

I don't know of any disaster situation where a Bishop has purloined supplies from any members. They will help coordinate responses, and if someone wants to donate supplies, they will oversee the distribution, but they won't go to members homes and request they give it up.



I am fully aware of what some of the brethren have stated. However, there are those that are not on the same page, or are not aware of the statements by General Authorities. We have a couple in our own Ward.

[mirkwood]

That does not mean you would have to do it if they "told" you to.

[Poltax]

Your right, & I would not.

[Toni]

Mgriffith:

No Bishop or SP has the authority to institute the United Order in their area any more than they can re-install polygamy.


I am fully aware of what some of the brethren have stated. However, there are those that are not on the same page, or are not aware of the statements by General Authorities. We have a couple in our own Ward.


I lived in an area where the stake president was pushing preparedness. He wanted us to have extra for those who didn't have any. I can't remember exact words, but he was planning for all of us to share.

[goldilocks]

As far theft of food storage is concerned I am amazed at how many Utahns leave their garage doors wide open and front, back, side or all house doors unlocked even when gone on a trip. If people want to avoid burglery they need to have some security in place and not be stupid in assuming there is no crime in their neighborhood.

[prairiemom]

As far theft of food storage is concerned I am amazed at how many Utahns leave their garage doors wide open and front, back, side or all house doors unlocked even when gone on a trip. If people want to avoid burglery they need to have some security in place and not be stupid in assuming there is no crime in their neighborhood.

This from Goldilocks. Should have warned the bears too, huh? :l0 (6):

[mgriffith]

I lived in an area where the stake president was pushing preparedness. He wanted us to have extra for those who didn't have any. I can't remember exact words, but he was planning for all of us to share.

Everyone in church leadership is supposed to emphasize self reliance. Look at Pres. Uchdorf's talk this past conference on Provident Living.

The Brethren have also asked that members with the means should pick a family and try to store enough food for them as well as their own families. This, by no means, will be able to supply everyone in the church, but will help uplift those that follow the counsel and those that receive the benefit of their neighbor's love.

A SP or Bishop can ask members to share, but it depends upon the abilities of the members in their area....financial means, spiritual strength, etc. Some areas that won't be possible, others it will, which is why there is no overriding declaration from the Brethren concerning this. Local leaders are given VERY BROAD guidance and then are counseled to follow the spirit for their own stewardship. But they won't be going door to door and collecting everyone's food storage, guns and ammo.

Mark

[thomasusa]

But they won't be going door to door and collecting everyone's food storage, guns and ammo.

I would be delighted to know for sure that you are correct.
One of my fears is that a bunch of ill-prepared leaders will think it is a good idea to collect all the food and put it one pile to "better protect" it. (read: better distribute it)

[thomasusa]

I lived in an area where the stake president was pushing preparedness...

My stake Pres is a billionaire - really.

In one stake conference he actually said; "...remember years ago when we were storing food...how we wasted our time, our money and all that wheat..."

I don't know how to deal with a guy who:
1.) doesn't understand that it is a commandment to prep,
2.) doesn't understand that all commandments are spiritual - even the physical commandments,
3.) and does not see that it is not a waste of time to obey commandments.

[mgriffith]

I would be delighted to know for sure that you are correct.
One of my fears is that a bunch of ill-prepared leaders will think it is a good idea to collect all the food and put it one pile to "better protect" it. (read: better distribute it)

You know, I should probably back up a little on my comment. I guess that somewhere in the world, a righteous leader may find it necessary to gather together all that is available to help those in need. I don't know what the Spirit will tell a leader in Botswana that presides over a branch of 20 people. And that might even be true at some places here in the USA. As I said, each priesthood leader must follow the promptings of the Spirit for their stewardship.

However, it is not a standing policy of the Church, and I would think that any SP or Bishop that tries it would be wrong, but then I can't predict what will happen in the future or what circumstances would cause the Spirit to prompt a leader to do so.

But it still stands that the Brethren have said for decades that the emergency food storage program for the Church is individual and family self reliance.

Mark

[constable01]

There is one time i can remember reading about that the saints were asked to donate their supplies to the church leadership, but it was an extrordinary circumstance........It was to feed and clothe Latter Day saints in the devastated areas of Europe after Germany surrendered.

I remember the only times my Great uncle Bill talked about WWII when i asked if any of it still bothered him......He said "Yeah, I'm missing my leg from Frostbite i got during the Battle of the Bulge and again same leg later in Korea!!" but on a more serious note. He said the worst by far was entering Germany seeing women and children living in holes they dug to the basements of what used to be their homes, starving along with the factory slaves who also were now starving refugees traveling the roads of europe trying to find their way back home.He said he had never in his worst nitemares pictured such anihalation.

[Poltax]

After discussing further with a couple of people in our group, this is what we have come up with. If our local Ward leader, Bishop, or Priesthood leader decides that they are wanting all supplies for everyone. Then we will ask for verification from the next 2 Priesthood leaders up the chain of command. This way if someone in the Ward or local area has decided they want supplies then it will have to verified farther up the Priesthood Chain of Command.

So...if our Ward HP or Elders Pres wants our supplies. Then it will have to be verified by the Bishop & the SP. Same if the Bishop wants supplies, verification by the SP and Area President.

This may not resolve all of the issue but it will give pause for thought for those asking for supplies.

Trust but verify.

[DMGNUT]

This need to "fade into the background" has grown stronger and stronger over the last year.

In regards to the above...
I think that the promptings each of us receives might be very different and may be based on; what area we're in, what ability we have to stop an unwanted intruder, the possibility that we (and much of our supplies) might have already left the area, etc, etc.
Although I'm not in a calling similar to Mirk's, I sure end up doing a lot of teaching about preps in general, and attribute this to members knowing that I'm somewhat knowledgeable in this area.

Poltax, I would agree with the "verify" plan, but I would also rely heavily on my own personal promptings.
I don't know if my saying this is right or wrong, but if I receive strong promptings not to contribute a goodly portion (or any portion) of my preps to church leadership, I most likely would not... regardless of consequences.

On a side note about teaching others in the realm of preps...
The Relief Society asked me to teach a pistol class for the sisters (a two part class, first one at a home with no ammo... basic familiarization, safety, etc), the second one at the range. (Note: If you don't go to the first one, you're not allowed to go to the second one.)
Anyway, it was pretty funny that we had a combined Adult Priesthood and Relief Society class for the third hr of the block (5th Sunday thing), taught by the Stake President. Anyway, they had the Elders Quorum Pres, High Priest Group Ldr and Relief Society Pres, make their normal announcements. I guess this is the first the Stake Pres and many Priesthood holders in our own ward had heard of this class... :blush:
Pretty much everyone in the room turned to look at me.
The really funny part was that the Relief Society Pres said they were having problems getting help with chairs, being set-up etc. Then she announced the pistol class... When the 2nd Councilor got back up, he said, "Brethren, I think there might have been a hidden message in there about helping the sisters... or else". :devil (2):

[Poltax]

DMGNUT... I agree with listening to the Spirit. I think I mentioned in one of the other posts on this thread, that I hoped I would be in tune to listen to the Spirit in this whole situation. If this type of situation ever happens, I think the prompting of the Spirit would top anything else. Mainly due to the fact that you may not be able to get in touch with other Priesthood leaders.

With all the talks lately in the last few General Conf about being self reliant and also living to rely on the Spirit. This all takes on a new meaning and importance.

[Noahs ARK]

In regards to the above...
I think that the promptings each of us receives might be very different and may be based on; what area we're in, what ability we have to stop an unwanted intruder, the possibility that we (and much of our supplies) might have already left the area, etc, etc.

I think you're absolutely correct. I seem to be helping more of our friends and family this past year - people that already know we prep. Lots of peeps seem to be "getting it" lately and have started prepping.

One of my friends used to make fun of me on a regular basis, but her husband just recently partitioned off a portion of their basement for their storage room. They hit Sam's & Costo once a week for their regular shopping and always add a case of something to their new storage room. She's so psyched that I laugh at her - love those Newbie Preppers!! :l0 (6): It helps me get excited about it again, too.

[mirkwood]

My stake Pres is a billionaire - really.




Just to emphasize...thomasusa's SP really is a billionaire...no play on words here.

[4evermama]

In regards to the above...
I think that the promptings each of us receives might be very different...

I completely agree with DMGNUT.
My response was directed to the promptings I've personally experienced about my no longer being on public display.

As far as helping others is concerned, we've never been busier. It rings true with me that knowledge is right up there with faith when it comes to preparedness. Our phone and e-mail accounts are backlogged with people needing direction and/or advice...and we help in whatever ways we are able.

I'm curious though, as to who might think we are even remotely close to being a Zion People... that our stakes are at a point where would be called to observe the Law of Consecration.

I'm thinking that we have a ways to go.

[mgriffith]

So...if our Ward HP or Elders Pres wants our supplies. Then it will have to be verified by the Bishop & the SP. Same if the Bishop wants supplies, verification by the SP and Area President.


Forgive me if I say this is a dangerous attitude to have. There isn't really a priesthood "chain of command". I won't go into a long discussion on this, but the Bishop holds the keys. I will say not to worry about a Bishop or SP coming to gather your food storage. Every Bishop knows all the food storage in the ward won't feed all the people, so it would be useless to gather it together. If you are worried that a Bishop or SP will gather together the food to supply himself and his family and friends, don't.

The hard times that are on the way will be taxing to everyone, so if your Bishop asks you to do something, do it and do it with faith that he is prompted by the Lord. It will work out and everyone will be uplifted by it.

If anyone wants to know more, I invite you to send me a private message and we can talk.

Mark

[Ligure]

I'm curious though, as to who might think we are even remotely close to being a Zion People... that our stakes are at a point where would be called to observe the Law of Consecration.


I do not think that we can become a Zion people until we are of one heart and one mind. Right now I observe that many in the Church are of many hearts and minds - doing their own thing and following their own ambitions. To me part of being one heart and one mind includes taking the Brethren seriously enough to to use the resources the Lord has blessed us with to become prepares as families. Many (including myself) have their priorities backwards and use the resources they are stewards over for their own pursuits.

The practice Law of Consecration would fail in short order if there were few people who were eligible to participate in it due to the disposition of their hearts and minds. It cannot be all the poor hoping to participate and all the wealthy hoping that the subject does not come up. Perhaps I should not exaggerate in that statement because I know of many wealthy that would not blink before they participate if they had the chance.

I recently heard an alarming statistic that the Church has about a new lawsuit a day (for whatever reason) and the vast majority of them are from members. I find that a sad statement.

I do know that the bridegroom will come after the bride is ready for Him. And after that time we will be practicing the Law of Consecration. Currently it is the Welfare program of the Church.

Ligure

[4evermama]

I do not think that we can become a Zion people until we are of one heart and one mind. Right now I observe that many in the Church are of many hearts and minds - doing their own thing and following their own ambitions. To me part of being one heart and one mind includes taking the Brethren seriously enough to to use the resources the Lord has blessed us with to become prepares as families. Many (including myself) have their priorities backwards and use the resources they are stewards over for their own pursuits.

The practice Law of Consecration would fail in short order if there were few people who were eligible to participate in it due to the disposition of their hearts and minds. It cannot be all the poor hoping to participate and all the wealthy hoping that the subject does not come up. Perhaps I should not exaggerate in that statement because I know of many wealthy that would not blink before they participate if they had the chance.

I recently heard an alarming statistic that the Church has about a new lawsuit a day (for whatever reason) and the vast majority of them are from members. I find that a sad statement.

I do know that the bridegroom will come after the bride is ready for Him. And after that time we will be practicing the Law of Consecration. Currently it is the Welfare program of the Church.

Ligure

Great response.....each and every point.

As far as the Lawsuit quote, is it possible that we attended the same lecture? I heard the same thing.

[Ligure]

Great response.....each and every point.

As far as the Lawsuit quote, is it possible that we attended the same lecture? I heard the same thing.

That depends. Did you go to the Saturday or the Tuesday talk by Farley?

Ligure

[4evermama]

Tuesday.

[Ligure]

Yep we were at the same one. My DW talked me into going (she didn't have to try too hard).

Ligure

[4evermama]

ARRRGGGG!
So close!
That's too funny.

(Hubby sat with the kids in the van in the parking lot so I could "go in Peace".
He didn't know the area and wasn't sure if he should leave me. :blush:)

What did you think? You can PM me if you think we shouldn't totally hijack the thread.