Does this apply to food storage?

[NoGreaterLove]

Here is the law:

Mosiah 4:
16 And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish.
17 Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just—
18 But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God.
19 For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind?
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.
23 I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.

Here is an example of a man who broke the law.

Luke 16:
19 ¶There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Does this apply?

Dear Brothers and Sisters:
Our Heavenly Father created this beautiful earth, with all its abundance,
for our benefit and use. His purpose is to provide for our needs
as we walk in faith and obedience. He has lovingly commanded us to
“prepare every needful thing” (see D&C 109:8) so that, should adversity
come, we may care for ourselves and our neighbors and support bishops
as they care for others.
We encourage Church members worldwide to prepare for adversity
in life by having a basic supply of food and water and some money in
savings.
We ask that you be wise as you store food and water and build your
savings. Do not go to extremes; it is not prudent, for example, to go into
debt to establish your food storage all at once. With careful planning, you
can, over time, establish a home storage supply and a financial reserve.
We realize that some of you may not have financial resources or
space for such storage. Some of you may be prohibited by law from
storing large amounts of food. We encourage you to store as much as
circumstances allow.
May the Lord bless you in your home storage efforts.
The First Presidency

[constable01]

Yeah, I just dare you to park in a truckstop near any major city, and stay the night.............we'll see how you feel about beggars after the 15th one or so hits you up using the same lame excuse the other 14 did to interupt the sleep you need desperatly to be able to drive safely!!

[Julie Bulie]

Anything the First Presidency says, applies. How thankful I am for their counsel.
I have always loved prepping.
Many was the time I needed money for the things I felt were important. We were counseled not to be in debt. I followed that counsel and got what I could when we could afford it. It seemed that by being obedient, the food storage and other supplies grew like manna from Heaven! It was my priority and it somehow worked.

I always feel that there is more to do. I am actually happy there is because I like doing it! :) The Lord Provides!

[Julie Bulie]

Yeah, I just dare you to park in a truckstop near any major city, and stay the night.............we'll see how you feel about beggars after the 15th one or so hits you up using the same lame excuse the other 14 did to interupt the sleep you need desperatly to be able to drive safely!!

Or park your R.V. at the Walmart in Gallup. They knock on your door the whole night! Its un-nerving! :ack2:

[constable01]

I ONLY GIVE to ones that i can tell need it and aren't using it for drugs etc. Like physically disabled ones, I actually bought a whole chicken dinner for one i could clearly tell had a stroke at some point and couldn't work, half his body was litterally limp.

There are some though that have enough dignity to offer a service for the money like hand polishing the shiny stuff on you truck, wheels, steps, fuel tanks etc. I have no problem paying them.

Generally though i let the spirit let me know who is a shyster and who is really in need.

[constable01]

Gallup? as in NM? I stopped at that Wal Mart before and never got bothered......................but then i was parked behind the store and they probably weren't aware i was there.

[NoGreaterLove]

Yeah, I just dare you to park in a truckstop near any major city, and stay the night.............we'll see how you feel about beggars after the 15th one or so hits you up using the same lame excuse the other 14 did to interupt the sleep you need desperatly to be able to drive safely!!

Worked in the OKC farmers market for over a decade, family business. Got to see my share of beggars. My grandfather and I gave them food and clothes periodically. We gave what we could.

[mirkwood]

Of course it applies. Unfortunately, a vast number of LDS believe this means they don't have to prepare, but get to rely on those who faithfully follow the gospel principle of self reliance (which includes food storage). They have the faith that the food stored by others will magically feed them all...yet they lack to the faith to follow the counsel of the prophets themselves.

They will rue the day...

[NoGreaterLove]

Joseph of old is the one who hearkened unto the spirit and prepared for the famine. He then fed all his own family when they came, plus all the Gentiles. However, the food was not free. It was not the dole system. Egypt became wealthy as each beggar had to pay with sheep, land or whatever they could muster.
So shall it be when this dearth comes along. We will be wealthy in spirit and in means as we trade our food for the services and goods of those who come to us begging.
God does not expect us to be unwise in the management of anything. Even the churches welfare system is not meant to be a dole. And when we finally get it where it is supposed to be, it will not be one.

[Earthling]

I know someone who used to speak extensively on preparing. He commented about how many thousands of dollars he had spent on his storage but in one local disaster it could be wiped out within a few days and he would not have the means to replace it and people would just say thanks for sharing. He plans to pay off his house with the proceeds of selling it to wealthy family members who won't prepare so he gets that security. :devil:

Remember you have responsibilities to take of your immediate family first, then extended family, then those who were not warned, and then disobedient members last. I don't think the ward members who plan on coming to "our houses" have taken into consideration that by the time you take care of just immediate family members (those in your house, your parents, grandchildren) that there is slim chance there will be any left over.

Another problem is not knowing how long you will need to rely on it - you have to be prudent. If you give it all away the first week - then you and your family will starve and you did not take care of your stewardship.

NGL - great post

[CurtisG]

I will have to use 1Timothy Ch5 as a guide. When sharing things encroaches on my ability to provide for my family as is commanded by scripture, thats where it stops.
Of course few of us really know how this will be until we are actually in that situation.

[Julie Bulie]

Gallup? as in NM? I stopped at that Wal Mart before and never got bothered......................but then i was parked behind the store and they probably weren't aware i was there.

Yes in New Mexico. The wind was blowing so hard. My Husband decided to run into Wal Mart to get a movie. We arranged a signal knock for when he got back, and I would know it was him.

He forgot the signal and I wouldn't let him in. He was hollering his name but I couldn't hear him for the wind. Finally I found a window where I could see him, and let him in! :crazy:

[constable01]

I'm sure he was just enamored to see you once he gained re-entry!! You left him to the mercy of the panhandlers!!!

[constable01]

Exactly members have been warned and warned again and only maybe 4 families in my unit take it seriously, which is unfortunate, because if they try to physically force their way in to get my family's supplies...........well lets just say their fear and suffering will endeth there.

Tough times call for tough measures and if i know they didn't heed the warning to get things in order then it's on them they will not commit crimes against me or my family that put them at risk whether i know them or not..............

[Earthling]

One thing this friend also mentioned is to expect persecution from other members since we're not giving them our food like they expected. He said it might get pretty uncomfortable to go to church to the point it's not safe. Something to think about . . . and also be prepared mentally for.

I also store the church manuals so for whatever reason we could have church at home - pandemic, persecution, etc.

[NoGreaterLove]

Another problem is not knowing how long you will need to rely on it - you have to be prudent. If you give it all away the first week - then you and your family will starve and you did not take care of your stewardship.

I believe this is the key, knowing. And the only way we will know is by being in tune with the Holy Ghost so he may direct us in the sharing effort.

[NoGreaterLove]

I will have to use 1Timothy Ch5 as a guide. When sharing things encroaches on my ability to provide for my family as is commanded by scripture, thats where it stops.
Of course few of us really know how this will be until we are actually in that situation.

And this is where faith comes in. Is God going to test us at this point to see of we will give when we think it will cause our own family to sacrifice? Once again, the Holy Ghost is the key ingredient in a righteous decision. With out the HG, we are left to kick against the pricks and go at it on our own wisdom.
The five unwise virgins went forward to the wedding feast using their own wisdom that all they needed was what was in their lamp, not taking extra.
The wise virgins could not share, for it was impossible to share what was needed to continue the journey.
Choosing to share food storage as prompted by the Holy Ghost when in our minds it appears it will leave our family short, may be that extra oil we will need in this time of crisis to get us to the wedding feast.
If we rely only upon our own understanding and wisdom when deciding whether to share it may be to our own demise.

I agree with Curtis, even though is sounds like I do not. He is right. I just add that we alone should not be making the decision. We will need the Holy Ghost to be our guide.

[thomasusa]

This is why God invented Fast Offerings.
When I pay my tithes and offerings I can send beggars across the street to beg at the Bishop's house.
I am still free to shoot the looters because I don't think the Bishop is armed.

[NoGreaterLove]

This is why God invented Fast Offerings.
When I pay my tithes and offerings I can send beggars across the street to beg at the Bishop's house.
I am still free to shoot the looters because I don't think the Bishop is armed.

So is your avatar actually his house? Lol

[CurtisG]

I don't think the Bishop is armed.
Then you probably dont have a Texas Bishop:ihih:
Either way, living across from a bishop will keep you on the straight and narrow...

[constable01]

The Above situation stated however, when WWII ended many Officers and GI's had located the remains of branches in Germany, and the Saints in the US were able to provide sustainance for those displaced LDS in Germany using their food storage. I also heard a talk from a low level church welfare person that the intent for our food storage is also to be able to donate what we can spare to members afected by a local or regional disaster that didn't affect your area.

[mirkwood]

So is your avatar actually his house? Lol


No that is my house.

[thomasusa]

... I also heard a talk from a low level church welfare person that the intent for our food storage is also to be able to donate what we can spare to members afected by a local or regional disaster that didn't affect your area.

I always thought that when anyone suggested that the purpose of "your" food storage was to feed other people,
deep down it was because they didn't personally have any and they were "volunteering" yours.

[thomasusa]

... living across from a bishop will keep you on the straight and narrow...

Not even close. He moved here so I could keep him under my surveillance.
Plus I have had the joy of having his boys vandalize my house weekly for years.


So is your avatar actually his house? Lol

No.
If I showed his house it would tip my hand and a picture of his house would have cross-hairs superimposed.

[Earthling]

A friend with a lot of experience said he always knew who did not have their food storage because they claimed we would all share. Once they have their storage, they don't say that anymore.

Once again (I've repeated this plenty) Boyd K. Packer in his book the Holy Temple said food storage was to be privately purchased and used. The church has millions - they can afford to feed the ward. I can't. But I do store what I can extra to help someone else. But I choose the someone else according to my stewardships or as a fast offering type donation.

[arbilad]

I imagine that if there is widespread hunger for whatever reason (trucker strike, natural disaster, evil alien overlords, etc) that fast offerings will be in the form of food.
Also, concerning the excerpt from Mosiah, yes, we are required to give to beggars, but only when we are able. If we only have sufficient for ourselves, we are not bound. Obviously, that is a judgment call, and a matter to be taken up with the Lord in prayer. But I really don't think that we would be required to give food to every person that asks.
Also, the food isn't what's going to save you. Faith will save you. If you don't have the faith to store food right now, you won't have the faith to be saved from the troubles to come, even if someone has already stored a year's supply specifically for you. In my opinion that is one of the lessons of the parable of the ten virgins. The wise virgins couldn't share what they had. When the time comes, I can't give someone the faith they need to survive, any more than I could live the Word of Wisdom or the Law of Chastity for them.

[Justme]

Arlibad, thanks for saying what I believe. I can and have stored much for my children and others but if they don't have the faith to do it themselves then I am afraid they won't benefit.

[Rand]

It is a paraphrase not a quote.
Charles C. Rich and his wife were camped around their fire one night. A widow and 4 children, whose husband was in the Mormon Battalion, stopped by their camp. She begged for food. His wife watched as he walked to the back of the wagon, and gave last 20 lbs. of flour they had to the widow. When he got back to the fire, his wife asked, what are we going to do now? His response rings strong and true, “We have done everything we could to prepare. We have helped everyone who came our way, and we are in the Lords hands. That night a wagon stopped by their fire. The driver got out and said, “The spirit tells me you are good people and in need of help.” He gave them $50. He also told them that the next day a wagon train was coming by and had extra supplies to sell and that he could buy whatever he needed.

Just sayin...

[arbilad]

Rand, consider the circumstances. These were all, it seems from the story, people who had followed the Lord's counsel and were moving west. They had already demonstrated their faith. The Lord took care of them, as He always has and always will.
Contrast that to the food storage scenario. The church has been saying, for longer than many of us have been alive, that we need food storage. They've been stressing the teaching a lot for a long while. No righteous LDS has the excuse of not having been told that it's very, very important.
When you don't follow the commandments, you have not promise from the Lord. And like I said, even if the food is there, if your faith isn't you're doomed anyway, and might as well not have had the food.
Also, another thing I would like to point out about this story and similar ones that are told any time this subject comes up is that these are individual stories. Each of us can and should use the spirit and decide when to share. But I don't think that we are instructed to share in an unlimited manner with everyone.

[NoGreaterLove]

Reading everyone's posts, it seems we all agree there is no "one blanket fits all" policy. It appears we all agree that we should have a heart and mind to share but need to listen to the Holy Ghost who may direct us in either direction.
IMO, there lies the difference between the five wise and the five foolish. Who has the HG to be there guide and who will listen no matter what the perceived consequences?

The HOLY GHOST!

[Rand]

I guess as I ponder this, I have to consider the comments on Charity in Moroni7: 42 Wherefore, if a man have faith(Do we really rely on God. Do we believe that he can put meal in the barrel, or are we convinced that we have to be the ones that fill our own barrel, even after we did our part in being obedient to His counsel?) he must needs have hope; for without faith there cannot be any hope.

43 And again, behold I say unto you that he cannot have faith and hope, save he shall be meek, and lowly of heart. (It seems to me that meekness would share. Meekness would offer as much as possible. Now note that we are suppose to be building Zion, not a telestial or even a Terrestrial order, but a Celestial.)

44 If so, his faith and hope is vain, for none is acceptable before God, save the meek and lowly in heart; and if a man be meek and lowly in heart, and confesses by the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, he must needs have charity;(Now I realize that charity is the pure love of Christ, not some charitable institution, but it is also where a man will lay down his life for a friend, not only a fellow prepper, but a friend) for if he have not charity he is nothing; wherefore he must needs have charity.

45 And charity suffereth long (Why if we do not share?), and is kind(Check), and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own(Oops, looks like sharing again), is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil (If we think no evil, won't all men seem worthy of help when they ask?), and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things(I think this may even indicate the giving up of our comforts we have so painstakingly accumulated for our comfort).

46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing(Ouch!), for charity never faileth(Hmmm). Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail—(If giving away my comfort and my food is what I need to do to make my way into the kingdom, I will happily do it.)

47 But charity is the pure love of Christ(This is exactly what he did for us. He gave away all of his virtue, his light and his glory to compensate for our sins, darknesses, and weaknesses. His carefully accumulated virtue left him at our request for redemption), and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day(or in the last days), it shall be well with him.

48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him(because we have given all that we have and we are for him and his kingdom. I suspect that in that day, food may be as important to conversion as the Book of Mormon is now), for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be dpurified even as he is pure. Amen.

I do believe that it will be a spirit led process, deciding what we are to do with what we have been blessed with by God. But I also have come to feel that the default position will be to give more than not, to share more than not, to love our enemies, do good to those who hate us and despitefully use us. And as we do, we open ourselves up too the protection of angels, and the miraculous sustenance that nature can offer of manna, quail, or whatever God needs to do to keep those who will build Zion, from the inside out, on the earth to fulfill that great and final work.

[constable01]

There won't be any truckers strikes in the foreseable future:

1. Too many foreigners in the industry from third world countries who think they are rich on what they are payed!

2. The only Union truckdrivers now are Conway Freight, YRC,FED EX,UPS and USF basically the double and triples companies with the short multiple trailers.

What you do have to worry about because politicians aren't smart enough to figure it out is them regulating us to the point the industry can't recruit drivers and the ones that are here give up and quit!!

They want to cut us to 10 hours driving with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF IT INCREASE SAFETY!! Make us take a 34 hr break once a week no matter what(Right now you can run on hours that come back nightly on the clock from 8 days ago) In other terms, we don't get hourly pay, we get mileage pay so many cents per hour, now with traffic, hills etc we average 50MPH!!

now 1 hour less to drive per day is 50 miles X 7 Or 350 miles per week you lose instatly! then during a 34 restart you normally wouldn't have to take now you coul've driven another 12 hours 12X 50 another 600 miles lost!!

950 miles lost at the average of .30CPM the avaerage truck driver will lose $285 bucks a week of his gross pay!! Because some bureaucrat thought it would be cool!!

The other one is right now truck manufacturers are building the cleanest running truck technology will allow we have exhuast scrubbers called regenerators to capture all that black soot you used to see coming out of the stacks, the newest ones you have to add a fluid to to further clean the exhaust........................now pay attention Californians!! Your state wants to make the exhaust restrictions even tighter!! Trucking companies are NOT going to buy special trucks just enter 1 state, so they will just quit running into Commiefornia period!! Not to mention your Highway patrol will pull us over and fine us just for waving hello to them.

Then there is the supply chain itself the existing trucks won't be able to deliver stuff as efficiently because they are sitting still more, the companies cannot add more trucks because they cannot find drivers for the ones they have now, add in lower earnings for the drivers mentioned above and an industry that already loses 9 people out of every ten hired aren't going to be able to entice new drivers to come in by earnings potential.

Meanwhile everybody sitting in their cozy living rooms at home are cheering "Yeah, bout time someone puts the screws to the trucking industry!!" Not realizing that yet again they are having the screws put to them.....................No Trucks=Empty shelves at Costco, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, the Grocerystore.

Think about this post the next time you ask about a missing item you went to the store for and the store manager says "The truck didn't make it!!" Because he probably ran out of his 10 hours which used to 11 just short of the store.

Oh also you folks who don't like seeing trucks have to park in every small nook and cranny of highway shoulders, rest stops, parking lots it's going to get worse since we'll be mandated by law to be parked more without enough parking actually being available out here.