Student driven learning

[loquaciousmomma]

I read the recent thread "the 7 lesson teacher" and ended up learning more about Mr. Gatto. A comment on one of the pages I read about him included a link to an article about the Sudbury Valley School which is completely student led. The adults at the school are more there as resources than anything. The students vote on issues, they staff a judicial council, they direct their own learning, and even raise money for extra costs for their interests.

In the homeschool world, the closest method to this school is Unschooling, as far as I can see.

My ten year old will be in 5th grade this year. I am trying to decide how to adjust his education for the best possible outcome.

This year and last we skipped the ITBS and used the CAT for assessment. He did alright but not stellar. The one area he excelled at was science. This is an area in which he is mostly self taught. He is very interested in anything scientific, and when asked what subject he wanted to learn last year he chose astronomy. So, to me, this may be evidence that self motivated learning is better for him because he is learning what he is ready and willing to learn. There is still a good chunk of me that feels nervous about this, however, because I want to make sure he is keeping up with the rest of his age mates.

Has anyone here used an Unschooling type method? Any suggestions or opinions on the validity of the various methods?

I spent more time focusing on this child than my five year old this past year. I didn't spend nearly as much time as I wanted teaching him to read. Yet, he is reading fairly well for a six year old, IMO. I feel he picked up much of his knowledge from observing me teach his brother. Both kids picked up quite a bit from PBS kids shows as well. They really like the science shows like WildCrats, and they also like Word Girl and Maya and Miguel. I don't plan on PBS shows being their education, but the point is, they will learn what they are ready to learn, they just gravitate towards it.

So, the evidence is compelling, but is it sufficient to warrant a change? I am in the research stage right now, and I value the opinions of veteran homeschoolers, so I would love to hear your thoughts.

[libertygranny]

As a former home schooling mom, the first year we did 'school' at home because that is what I knew. The second year we did unit studies and by the 3rd year we were pretty much unschooling but doing a Thomas Jefferson Education approach. I have 5 kids and when we started our home school adventure they were in grade wise: 11th, 10th, 8th, 5th and 1st. I 'graduated' 4 of the 5 from our home school and my last one, who was primarily unschooled for 8 years, went back to public school in 10th grade and graduated 3 years later w/honors.

I discovered my kids learned the most and best when it was led by themselves, learning what they wanted when they wanted. I also discovered no matter what 'subject' they picked all educational disciplines could be used ie astronomy: math, writing/grammar, speech, art, history, etc.

One of my daughters after she recieved her Patriarchal Blessing basically changed how and what she wanted to learn, following the guidance in her blessing.

We also used the YW Personal Progress program, YM Duty to God, and Scouts to also come up with things to learn/do.

We discovered there is no one size fits all, even in families. Oh, as my kids got older, I found mentors for some of their subjects. Just someone they could ask questions, come visit at their work place and shadow them for a few hours.

If a child can read, they can learn. If a child can listen, they can learn.

[loquaciousmomma]

Thanks, libertygranny! May I ask what your homeschool day looked like during the self led years? Did you require accountability for learning?

I am considering requiring my son to give an accounting of his learning at the end of each day to focus him on the idea that he isn't on vacation, but rather learning what he chooses not what I direct.

Did you ever notice any holes in their learning?

[libertygranny]

not daily, but every month my hubby and I sat down w/ea child and did a sort of PPI about their school work ie where were they in as far as the goals they sat for a particular subject, etc.

our days looked somewhat like this:

everyone got up w/in an hour or so of each other, we're late owls in our home so we did a lot of family stuff at night when dad was home from work. They had to come down dressed for the day, have breakfast, then start on any school work they were working on. I did not hover over them, I did my own studying/reading/etc and they knew they could come to me w/questions/concerns/etc. On some days we played board, card, or other educational type games, took field trips, etc. Mostly everyone worked on their own school stuff but they did help each other too. We were all in one of 3 connected rooms, living room, dinning room or kitchen. No one did their work in their bedroom. Our living room and dinning room had 6 bookcases full of all kinds of books, the computer was in the lr and the big desk was in the dr, but everyone mostly sat on the floor of the lr or around the dr table.


Because i was home, I knew what they had or had not done for the day.

In the afternoon I would read a book out loud and the kids would either draw, knit, do other handwork and listen.

Weekly we did require the kids to do the following:

write 1 5 minute talk on whatever gospel subject we had for FHE on Sunday night (we did our spiritual lessons on Sundays).

write 1 thank you note to someone in the family or the ward (ie the librarian, ward clerk, a bishopric member, basically anyone who had a calling just let them know how much you appreciate them doing their calling).

one act of service for someone outside the family. they could do this together as a family group or by themself. We calendared this at our family council meetings each week held before FHE. Sometimes the act changed if an emergency came up that we were made aware of. *if your kids are young, they could be encouraged to do something for each other or you parents or grandparents if they are nearby.

Before they 'graduated' from our home school they were required to study the founding documents ie Declaration of Independence and Constitution and to study the lives of at least 3 founding fathers/mothers. We already covered early American history previous in unit studies.

Because we wanted the kids to be well rounded, in our monthly PPIs/educational goal setting sessions, we did encourage them to also study topics we noticed they were lacking in. We required them to study each topic whether of their choosing or one we suggested for at least 1 month. Some subjects we found they would start out studying and it led to other subtopics to study.

We worked a lot on spiritual, talent and character development.

just one suggestion on the accountability: talk w/your hubby, let him be the one your son goes to for the daily or weekly accountability. Your hubby needs to be involved too. Encourage him to have monthly father PPIs w/each kid and then invite you in for the educational part.

[libertygranny]

forgot to add: on our kids' diplomas hubby signed them as "Superintendent of School" and I signed it as "principal".

holes in education, yes they had them, but so do kids who go to public school. My main concern was to teach my kids how to learn so they could continue as adults and fill in the holes when they wanted or needed to.

[loquaciousmomma]

Great suggestions! I am going to print this thread off and show it to my husband. He and I have been discussing this since yesterday. I like the superintendent idea, and the accountability meetings with Dad.

Thanks!

:)

[Looking Forward]

I did student driven for several years with my daughter, but we had to go to a more structured way. She has un-diagnosed ADD, and has a really hard time focusing. Our biggest problem was she wanted to just play, even at age 10 and up, she would play with cats, dolls or even daydream (at age 16 1/2 she still will just daydream most day if I let her.) When she was younger if she had an inkling that she was actually learning, she would stop what she was doing and fight any type of education. IF I hadn't had a clear confirmation on homeshcooling I probably would have put her back in public school. We finally have overcome that fighting stage somewhat, and she is taking more responsiblity for her education. The problem we are encountering now, is we have had social workers involved with our life, and in Utah if you want that diploma you have to take the 12 grade exit test to graduate. So we have put her in Harmony Educational Services, that someone on here posted about. My daughter is musically gifted, and has taught herself the piano really well. I had to pray and pray to know how to teach her math because she just wasn't getting it and would NOT do anything on her own in that area. Heavenly Father really helped me to find was to teach her using music. I have asked her to now use that technique with other parts of math, but she has no desire to do so. She would love to go into Interior Design, but when told by a CAD teacher that she does need to know math, she decided she doesn't want to go into that. So while I have let her be student driven, I still find I have to guide and create that structure or there would be MAJOR holes in her education.


I like the superintendent idea, and the accountability meetings with Dad. This is so important! Having dad involved really does help. Not only with accountability, but the support and example they give is priceless. Having mentors in areas that they are weak in is also a good way to go, and gives them accountability to someone else as well.

This is something that my daughter watched and discussed in her class online. Really well worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&feature=player_embedded

Good luck with whatever you do!

[loquaciousmomma]

Those were some of the things I was worried about. Given free reign, my son would use electronics all day/night. That was why I thought of daily accountability. The trick is having some teeth with the accountability for my son. He is also undiagnosed adhd.

One of the big problems I am having with him is the days that he just absolutely refuses to do any schoolwork. He is very intelligent and loves to learn, but if he isn't interested it is like pulling teeth.

I don't want to kill his love for learning, but there are things he needs to know.

*sigh*

Does your daughter like Harmony?

[libertygranny]

my youngest son was 7 when i started home schooling him. He was not reading at "grade level", he had no interest in reading. he was/is a very smart kid. So, we didn't do school per se, but he learned by just being a boy. He learned math by building a tree house, a catapult, a potatoe launcher, we played math games like triominoes, dominoes, some games that used a deck of cards, I read books aloud to him and his siblings, we did star gazing in the summer and winter, we played word games, etc. He didn't like workbooks/busywork type things. He would catch bugs and then we'd look them up in the many science books I had.

He actually didn't start reading till he was between 10 and 11 yrs old....he liked playing the games on gameboy that his older siblings had and they always had the strategy books. Well, they got tired of him always asking them to read each section he was on to him, so he started reading! This is also the kid I took grocery shopping because he could add the prices in his head as we shopped and he was usually w/in a dollar or two of the total. Today he still likes to build things and is very accurate, he'll be 22 this Fri. He is also going to the fire academy here at our local community college (that's how the depts do it out here now, you go through the academy then they hire you).

If you can, read some of the books by Dr Raymond and Dorothy Moore, especially the ones about boys and how they learn. If your son is a kenetic learner ie hands on, then sitting down to do school work is driving him crazy. There are books out there that help you see what kind of learner your kids are. We had a book, can't remember the name of it sorry, but even I and my husband took the tests included when we gave the tests to all the kids. It helped me to see that only one of my 5 kids learned like me and I was trying to teach all of them in my learning style which was very frustrating for them and me!

also read 'A Thomas Jefferson Education' by Oliver DeMille. He also has a website that is good.

One of the biggest things I learned along the way was not to stress about what they weren't learning and celebrate what they were. Your kids sound young, you have time. You and your hubby should pray about what each kid needs, write down any impressions, gather the materials, sit down w/each kid individually and talk to them about what they like to learn. You say your oldest likes video games...find books on game designing, etc and let him look/read those and then attempt to create his own game, have him draw the characters on paper, name them, write out a story for the game, etc. Play to his interests, make learning fun and he won't even know he is learning. A lot of learning is trial and error, let him fail too.

[Julie]

I'm not much of an unschooling mom. I do organize the kids' school work. I have been working on this next years school just today. I usually read science and history out-loud to the girls. We will be studying World History and Cultures from Abeka. I have a daughter that loves Abeka history books. We will be studying science from a historic perspective too. Joy Hakim has a neat 3 book series out called "The Story of Science". They are excellent and I got them from Amazon. They do have to do grammar, writing, and math. I found a neat program called "Discover the Book of Mormon" that they will do that we help them with their Personal Progress. I usually do not do the same thing each year. I like to try new things and I like introducing my kids to all kinds of subjects. Sometimes you never know what they like unless they are exposed to it. I use a planner and write down what they need to do each day and they need to have that checked off before they get on the electronics.
I am preparing them for college. I will have three kids in college this next year and I use the CPT test to get them in so I teach to that test. The better the score the less classes they have to take and the cheaper for me.:l0 (6):
The only involvement I have is the out-loud reading and being available to answer questions. Most of the time they sit at a table and work on their own.

[Looking Forward]

He is very intelligent and loves to learn, but if he isn't interested it is like pulling teeth. :l0 (6): My daughter just read that, and said, heehee thats me! If I'm not interesting then is not much use to get me to do it QUICKLY. She said she's glad she's not the only one.

Anyway... Yes she has liked Harmony. It is a blend of homeschooling and a charter school. You pick and choose what classes you want to take, and then the others you do on your own. At least she can graduate from the school she is under. This coming year we are going to try some BYU classes from Harmony. For those that want to be "pure" in their homeschooling will probably not like it, but it has worked for us.

'A Thomas Jefferson Education' by Oliver DeMille Is a good book to read, and I did try to follow it. However, it seemed it worked better for kids who were self directed and didn't need to be always on task. My daughter always tried to stay in the Core Phase, and she would dabble in the Love of Learning Phase. At age 16 she should be in Scholar Phase, but she is only self directed in music and gives up when things get too hard. I have tried to apply some of the concepts from DeMille, but others just didn't work for my daughter.


Given free reign, my son would use electronics all day/night Use this as your bases for his education encourage him to learn programming. Lego's has a robot that you build the robot and program commands, my daughter did that 2 years ago at Hi Tech High. Kids his age can start learning programming apps for their electronic games. There was a kid in Utah that did just that, and has had his app downloaded I think over a million times for I think Ipad or something or other. He was only 13-14. (I'm probably getting the story mixed up, but it was something similar.) Anyway he might be more willing to try that, with the thought of programming something he thinks he and others would like to play.

Good Luck on your journey!

[Julie]

My oldest son is a tactile learner. I used Konos unit studies with him and he loved them. They make learning into a game. They had to arrange chairs to make an ear and stuff like that.
I used Jump Start computer programs and the girls like the Nancy Drew computer games. They still like to go back and play all the fun stuff.
I too, have a child who would just stick in front of the computer all day if she was allowed. I've had to put up all electronics and when they get the required work done then they can have them. The check-off list really helps. It gives them a beginning and an end. Some days it might not be so pleasant but those electronics can be addicting and there are some days it can be so bad that I just load everyone up and go to the park or on a hike or on a picnic just to get them away from the temptation. That helps a lot.
My son loves electronics and is currently working as a computer engineer and going to school. I let him build computers, play the Jump Start games etc... but after the basics were done.
One thing about the computer games is my daughter, who is working as an Internal Auditor at an bank and working on her CPA, said that they really helped her in school. They gave her critical thinking skills through all the puzzles you have to solve that story problems etc... are a breeze for her.
My education philosophy is a combination of philosophies and I find that works best for my family and our educational goals.