Sharing your food storage

[Cowboy]

Mosiah 4: 12-25
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> 12 And behold, I say unto you that if ye do this ye shall always rejoice, and be filled with the love of God, and always retain a remission of your sins; and ye shall grow in the knowledge of the glory of him that created you, or in the knowledge of that which is just and true.
13 And ye will not have a mind to injure one another, but to live peaceably, and to render to every man according to that which is his due.
14 And ye will not suffer your children that they go hungry, or naked; neither will ye suffer that they transgress the laws of God, and fight and quarrel one with another, and serve the devil, who is the master of sin, or who is the evil spirit which hath been spoken of by our fathers, he being an enemy to all righteousness.
15 But ye will teach them to walk in the ways of truth and soberness; ye will teach them to love one another, and to serve one another.
16 And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish.
17 Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just?
18 But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God.
19 For behold, are we not all beggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind?
20 And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy.
21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another.
22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.
23 I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.
24 And again, I say unto the poor, ye who have not and yet have sufficient, that ye remain from day to day; I mean all you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give.
25 And now, if ye say this in your hearts ye remain guiltless, otherwise ye are condemned; and your condemnation is just for ye covet that which ye have not received. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

I think it will be up to the Bishop or the Stake President to decide how the food storage will be used. The Lord will clean out the undeserving. Let him judge. For us we need to have the attitude that King Benjamin preaches if we want a remission of our sins. We are all beggars and fall short. Our attitude is to receive everyone. Let the Lord judge who is worthy and who is not. I would rather be guilty of sharing and looking after my brother who is unworthy than this attitude:

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> 17 Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just?
18 But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
I get tired of hearing people state that they will led away or told not to share when things get bad. Everything is the Lords, let him decide how to use it. BUT as for those who try and take it by force will be dealt with by force.

[Dolcezza]

It is obvious I would share, but would I let my children die because I share? Many are concerned about this little detail- I PERSONALLY hope in miracles!

[NRA]

Did the woman with the child that shared with Elijah (I think) have her child die by sharing? Or was it just a test? As maybe it will be for us? Where is it written anywhere that we won't die if we don't share?

[mirkwood]

The spirit will determine charity. Even Elder Packer said in his book The Holy Temple that food storage is to be privately stored and privately used. If prompted to do otherwise I will, if not, the parable of the Ten Virgins becomes applicable.

[Alma the Younger]

This is obviously an important discussion and one that many of us are constantly thinking about.

I share the ideas of many who find it difficult to ponder sharing the food storage that I sacrifced to put aside with those who instead purchased boats, ATV, and other sundry toys. Too often we hear other, members alike, repeating the same tired old saying, "When bad times come I'm coming to your house," or another favorite, "Why should I bother with food storage...I know where all the Mormons live in my neighborhood."

Speaking for myself, I am confident that when the time arrives the Bishop will indeed ask for donations to provide for those in need. I am confortable with that situation and have put aside addition items that my family may not consider favorites. For example, often Emergency Essentials will have a promotion on assorted freeze-dried vegetable cases. The case may include several cans of items we like, but also have one or two cans of aspargrass or califlower pearls (yuck!). Well, guess what will be on the top of the donation list?

Another idea is that when the time comes I'll need help doing manual labor. So if Mr. Jones needs food for his family, fine...his family is welcome at our table as long as Mr. Jones and his son help me dig a new latrine or clean out an old one.

But make no mistake, if anyone comes to Casa de Alma with the idea of taking what I have sacrificed to put aside for my family...well, there will be consequences.

Another site I have lurked on recommends putting together charity kits that can be handed out to the less fortunate. They suggest that each family decide upon the number of kits they believe would be just and what they'll contain. A suggestion was that you buy surplus seabags and fill them with assorted items that would meet the needs of your area (i.e., climate) and have enough food for several days. The idea is that it will provide enough support so the people could move on and leave your family alone, while at the same time, fulfilling the Christain need to support the poor.

The other thought that has often come to mind is the miricle of the loaves and fishes. I have faith that if I am willing to share and follow the guidence of my local priesthood leaders, the Lord will multiply my blessings.

419!

[NRA]

Another idea is that when the time comes I'll need help doing manual labor. So if Mr. Jones needs food for his family, fine...his family is welcome at our table as long as Mr. Jones and his son help me dig a new latrine or clean out an old one.

But make no mistake, if anyone comes to Casa de Alma with the idea of taking what I have sacrificed to put aside for my family...well, there will be consequences.

I think the above two quotes pretty much sum up my feelings. If someone humbly comes and is willing to help me for what they get, I believe the Lord would make the food last as long as necessary.

On the other hand, if someone comes with the mindset of taking what I have at all cost, it may very well cost them all.

The whole difference, I believe, is the attitude with which one comes to you. Who could turn someone down that came to you humbly asking with the attitude that if you did turn them down, they would leave? And would rather starve than to try and take your food by force. Where another comes with the intent and sole purpose of taking it from you along with you and your family's life, if necessary.

[goldilocks]

I wonder if the Lord will bless us if we share with one not so deserving or count us out like the 5 foolish virgins ?

[arbilad]

I really believe that, when the time comes, the Bishop will not be administrating food storage. There are several reasons I think this.
First, this is not the way it works right now. The Lord asks for donations through the Bishop and administers to the poor that way.
Ah, I can already hear you say, what about the United Order? I really and utterly cannot conceive of the United Order being implemented in a situation where the parties are so entirely unequal in spiritual preparation. Just like you wouldn't advise a family member to marry someone who was nowhere near their spiritual level. Food storage is a spiritual law, and those who don't obey it don't have enough faith to live the United Order. After all, the United Order is not a wealth redistribution system. It is a system of everyone doing their best and the Bishop rearranging stuff a little to help those who come up short in providing for their provisioning, after an honest effort to do it themselves.
Second, the logistics of it are simply unworkable. It is hard for me to imagine a situation where we are living on food storage, but gas is not in really short supply. You're not going to be driving to the ward building every night to contribute your beans to the ward dinner. And you're not going to be driving food from house to house. People will mostly be on foot. Food storage is heavy. This is especially a problem for those of us who don't live in Utah. I can only think of one neighbor in easy walking distance who is LDS. It just isn't realistic to expect a distribution system to be set up in the ward, unless your ward has several people with horses and wagons.
Third, I even doubt that it will be necessary. Like i said, food storage is a spiritual commandment, and is to teach us faith in the Lord, allowing him to bless us. He has talked frequently about how He'll defend the righteous in the last days. I imagine that when the fecal matter hits the rotary oscillator that those who didn't have enough faith in the Lord to get food storage when it seemed unnecessary will not be amongst those enjoying His protection.
As has been expressed earlier, attitude is very important. If someone comes to me asking for food, and the Spirit moves me to, I am more than willing to offer them food. I will not put up with thieves, though. I put those who come asking, are able to help with labor, but unwilling, in the same category as thieves.
The Lord's set up a grand system; each of us has had the ability and the time to get at least some food storage together. I wish more of the church took advantage of the Lord's counsel to prepare. We can each of us provide for our own family in the coming times. He's given us the time and the ability.

[DMGNUT]

I wonder if the Lord will bless us if we share with one not so deserving or count us out like the 5 foolish virgins ?

Goldilocks, I think the answer to your question is yes, if by "not so deserving", you mean those who could've prepared, but chose not to (spending their money instead, on toys and other such items).
However, if you mean those who come threatening violence, to take our food, if we don't give them what they want... well... Lets just say the Spirit will have to yell really loud, to take my attention off of doing what I've been training to do.

[goldilocks]

DMGNUT, I agree with you 100%. Just wanted to see others take on it.

[BackBlast]

A few points,

In this age some types of help is plain dangerous. Giving rides to people for example. While you may help someone genuinely in need, there is a danger to your person in picking up or helping the unknown.

A general rule I follow is to ask, in the hour, if I should help or not. The times I have not heeded this has resulted in undesirable issues occurring.

In the instances where sharing food becomes a serious issue, it will likewise contain hidden dangers to those who would be charitable.

There are two avenues that I would consider. People I know, who come to my house. You will not be given "charity" in the idea that it's free, unless I have no work for you to do. You will work for food, and you would have been much better off to store it for yourself. Otherwise "excess" will be given to the Bishop to distribute how he sees fit using the guidelines of the Church that I very much agree with. Mass pooling is very unlikely as many people have special diets and have purchased accordingly, you can't redistribute that without causing more issues than you solve.

I have a bunch of ramen noodles specifically intended for charitable donations.

Anyone who threatens me or my family will see the observation of the commandment "Ye shall defend your families, even unto bloodshed".

[Equanimity]

"Because I have been given much, I too must give; Because of thy great bounty, Lord, each day I live. I shall divide my gifts from thee, with every brother that I see who has the need of help from me. Because I have been blessed by thy great love, dear Lord. I'll share thy love again, according to Thy word. I shall give love to those in need; I'll show that love by word and deed: Thus shall my thanks be thanks in deed."

[Earthling]

Along with the quote Mirkwood gave from Boyd K Packer on food storage to be privately stored and privately used is this story. Tim Woolf shared with me that his mission president was Elder Carlos E. Asay. He asked Brother Asay if the storage would be "called in" by the bishop to be "shared". Brother Asay asked Brother Packer who said "there might be an unrighteous bishop or stake president somewhere that tries to do this but it would be unrighteous dominion". Brother Asay also told Tim that if someone says they will just share with you to look them in the eye and say "you don't have your food storage do you?". They don't say that when they have it.

Bottom line - it is your storage to use or share how you feel. It is not the bishops or the church's. I have tried to store some extra to share but can't take care of the ward. If they didn't have faith enough to store where are they going to get faith enough to have it miraculously increased like the widow story? I think there will be a lot of pressure or even persecution from those who want your food storage. Which child are you going to starve to feed the disobedient? My family is my stewardship first.

In an old pamphlet Ernest Wilkinson said that our responsibility in this regard is first to our family, then to those who were not warned, and last to the disobedient members of the church. That is very interesting!

[Cowboy]

Very good points.

[Toni]

Mosiah 4: 12-25 24 And again, I say unto the poor, ye who have not and yet have sufficient, that ye remain from day to day; I mean all you who deny the beggar, because ye have not; I would that ye say in your hearts that: I give not because I have not, but if I had I would give.
25 And now, if ye say this in your hearts ye remain guiltless, otherwise ye are condemned; and your condemnation is just for ye covet that which ye have not received.


(I haven't read all of the posts so this may have already been addressed)
Dolcezza, the above quote should answer your question. You are to share if you can. If your children will die, then you don't have enough to share.

If we have enough faith, then we wouldn't run out I suppose (as a pp stated) but I'm not sure I'd have that much faith.

[mirkwood]

President Spencer W. Kimball identified who the Ten Virgins are in the Church:
I believe that the Ten Virgins represent the people of the Church of Jesus Christ and not the rank and file of the world. All of the virgins, wise and foolish, had accepted the invitation to the wedding supper; they had knowledge of the program and had been warned of the important day to come.
They [the foolish] knew the way but gave only a small measure of loyalty and devotion. I ask you: what value is a car without engine, a cup without water, a table without food, a lamp without oil? Hundreds of thousands of us today are in this position. Confidence has been dulled and patience worn thin. It is so hard to wait and be prepared always. But we cannot allow ourselves to slumber. The Lord has given us this parable as a special warning. The foolish asked others to share their oil, but spiritual [and temporal] preparedness cannot be shared in an instant. The wise had to go, else the bridegroom would have gone unwelcomed. They needed all their oil for themselves; they could not save the foolish. The responsibility was each for himself (Faith Precedes The Miracle, pg. 253).

[DMGNUT]

Mirkwood, I clicked the "Thanks" button, but your last post deserves a "Double Thanks". Good post.

[DMGNUT]

"Because I have been given much, I too must give; Because of thy great bounty, Lord, each day I live. I shall divide my gifts from thee, with every brother that I see who has the need of help from me. Because I have been blessed by thy great love, dear Lord. I'll share thy love again, according to Thy word. I shall give love to those in need; I'll show that love by word and deed: Thus shall my thanks be thanks in deed."


Equanimity,
I love your post and the sentiments it teaches, but I think it applies more to our current "day to day" life, and not so much to the day that all heck breaks loose. On that day I'll rely on the Holy Spirit to direct my actions. Only He will know how long the calamity will last, and how much I can really spare (above and beyond the extra I've already, and am still continuing, to put into my food storage).

[Lucy]

We can share and be physically saved (the woman and the prophet Elijah) and we can share and still suffer (Martin and Willie Handcart companies) but either way if we've done what our Father would have us do, we will not lose our salvation.

[NRA]

if we've done what our Father would have us do, we will not lose our salvation.That's what it's all about anyway. :l0 (2):

[Dolcezza]

actually, who will remain alive to build the New Jerusalem if everyone dies of starvation 2 weeks after sharing food storage?
unless the city is to be built by ghosts, angels etc...:l0 (20):

[Lucy]

In an old pamphlet Ernest Wilkinson said that our responsibility in this regard is first to our family, then to those who were not warned, and last to the disobedient members of the church. That is very interesting!

Please remember that Earnest L was the President of BYU, not a general authority.

With sharing I have lots of thoughts.

One thought is that "it's mine so there." :ack2:

Another, much better thought is:

There are so many people I know that are such good people who have not received a testimony of food storage, who am I to judge? Maybe these people are better "Christians" than I am with sharing and giving what they have. Maybe one of these people can reach a way ward child in a way I cannot. Maybe these people serve in the temple or read their scriptures or does their visiting teaching more than I do. Maybe my "test" will be to share with those people. The KEY will be to be in tune with the spirit.

[paladin0861]

I've only been 'active' for the last couple of years. In regards to food storage, I was a little slow to start. My wife is an accountant by trade. She looked at my project and was a little skeptical about it weighin $ investment and possible need. After several discussions she began to see the light. She is now fully on board.

I have asked myself about the sharing of our storage. I look at what we have and realize that it is not so very much. About 6 solid months worth. My wife answered this a couple of weeks ago for me. She was doing an inventory with me and looked up, 'This is developing nicely. We even have enough to share.' She said it matter of factly.

And there is my answer to my situation. With our Faith, we have enough stores to share.

[DMGNUT]

President Spencer W. Kimball identified who the Ten Virgins are in the Church:
I believe that the Ten Virgins represent the people of the Church of Jesus Christ and not the rank and file of the world. All of the virgins, wise and foolish, had accepted the invitation to the wedding supper; they had knowledge of the program and had been warned of the important day to come.
They [the foolish] knew the way but gave only a small measure of loyalty and devotion. I ask you: what value is a car without engine, a cup without water, a table without food, a lamp without oil? Hundreds of thousands of us today are in this position. Confidence has been dulled and patience worn thin. It is so hard to wait and be prepared always. But we cannot allow ourselves to slumber. The Lord has given us this parable as a special warning. The foolish asked others to share their oil, but spiritual [and temporal] preparedness cannot be shared in an instant. The wise had to go, else the bridegroom would have gone unwelcomed. They needed all their oil for themselves; they could not save the foolish. The responsibility was each for himself (Faith Precedes The Miracle, pg. 253).

Thanks to Mirk for this post. For whatever reason, it speaks volumes to me. Perhaps the Prophet meant it as more of a warning to motivate those without their food storage. I'm sure the Spirit will move many of us to help those less prepared, but regardless of the Prophet's intentions when saying this, the truth is still the truth, when it comes to members who are willfully disobedient.
The Spirit will have to speak loudly to get my attention when the time comes that I need to share with those who have, "[gone their] several ways, feasting and making merry...", while I struggled to prepare for my family.


In mercy the Lord warns and forewarns. He sees the coming storm, knows the forces operating to produce it, and calls aloud through His prophets; advises, counsels, exhorts, even commands--that we prepare for what is about to befall and take shelter while yet there is time.
But we go our several ways, feasting and making merry, consoling conscience with the easy fancy of 'time enough' and in idle hope that the tempest will pass us by, or that, when it begins to gather thick and black about us we can turn back and find shelter.
James E Talmage, The Parables of James E. Talmage, p. 50

[LoudmouthMormon]

Things I learn from such stories:

* People might not get stopped in their tracks by a couple ounces of bullet entering their bodies. They keep moving around, acting and reacting, and remain a danger both during the shooting and after.

* There is a price to be paid for taking another's life - even if completely justifiable. Expect your levels of peace and joy to go down - maybe temporarily, maybe permanently. PTSD ain't just for soldiers and rape victims. Other people relate being sued in civil court by surviving family even if you're not charged - to the tune of thousands in legal fees and a year of life lost. This is offset by the fact that you and yours are alive and walking around, able to bear these tribulations, instead of 6 ft under.

Sobering, humbling stuff. I consider the whole concept of carrying "999 ways to run away, 1 way to fight back".

LM

[threepercent]

Dear Brothers and Sisters:
Our Heavenly Father created this beautiful earth, with all its abundance,
for our benefit and use. His purpose is to provide for our needs
as we walk in faith and obedience. He has lovingly commanded us to
?prepare every needful thing? (see D&C 109:8) so that, should adversity
come, we may care for ourselves and our neighbors and support bishops
as they care for others.

Message from the first presidency, All Is Safely Gathered In pamphlet.

Note: "His purpose is to provide for our needs
as we walk in faith and obedience."

I think this means that if we have walked in faith and obedience we can turn to the Lord and HE will provide for us, and those who did not walk in faith and obedience will have to turn to US.

Who would you rather depend on?

This protects us under both the laws of justice and mercy.