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KF7EEC
10-16-2016, 08:10 AM
I thought this was a good write up. A lot of these quotes I was familiar with but some I am not and I have not yet verified them.

Thoughts?



Posted by Amhrana Leigheas (https://www.facebook.com/amhrana.leigheas?fref=nf) on the Facebook group LDS Emergency Prep (https://www.facebook.com/groups/ldsemergencyprep/) at https://www.facebook.com/groups/374762462646408?view=permalink&id=1001015466687768

I don’t know about anyone else’s wards/stakes, but, in several of the ones I’ve lived in, I’ve come across quite a few people who believe that when hard times come, the bishop or Stake President will “call in” everyone’s food storage and then share it to make sure everyone in the ward has food. Those who espouse this opinion usually have little or no food of their own stored, but have an ample supply of excuses and justifications for their disobedience to prophetic counsel.
I’ve struggled with this concept on several levels, in spite of the fact that I personally could not watch someone else’s child starve while I had food to eat.
As a result, I’ve done a fair bit of research on this topic, especially since hearing it voiced and widely accepted in a Ward Council meeting I was recently part of. I have now found conclusive evidence that this is NOT the way the problem is to be handled.
Here are just a few of the more pointed quotes on this topic from the Brethren (those on my class e-mail list may have seen some of these before, but I promise, you have not seen them all – especially the coup de grace).
“For individuals to retain their dignity during a time of personal distress, opportunities for service and work commensurate with the recipients’ circumstances should be found. The value of the work or service need not be equal to the assistance received but rather sufficient to avoid the evils of the dole and the fostering of an entitlement mentality.” H. David Burton, (“The Welfare Responsibilities of the Bishop,” Basic Principles of Welfare and Self-Reliance, [Intellectual Reserve, Inc., 2009] (08288), 7)
“We must never let the Lord’s program of self-help become a dole, for “the idler shall not have place in the church, except he repent and mend his ways” (D&C 75:29). If an individual refuses to do his part by working according to his ability, then the bishop has the prerogative of withholding assistance until a reformation of attitude is achieved.” (Pres. Marion G. Romney, “The Role of a Bishop in the Church Welfare Program,” Ensign, Nov. 1979, 96.)
“The Church was two years old when the Lord revealed that “the idler shall not have place in the church, except he repent and mend his ways.” (D&C 75:29.) The Welfare handbook instructs: “[We must] earnestly teach and urge Church members to be self-sustaining to the full extent of their powers. No true Latter-day Saint will … voluntarily shift from himself the burden of his own support. So long as he can, under the inspiration of the Almighty and with his own labors, he will supply himself with the necessities of life.” (1952, p. 2.) …When people are able but unwilling to take care of themselves, we are responsible to employ the dictum of the Lord that the idler shall not eat the bread of the laborer. (See D&C 42:42.) The simple rule has been to take care of one’s self. When the Church welfare program was first announced in 1936, the First Presidency said: “Our primary purpose was to set up, in so far as it might be possible, a system under which the curse of idleness would be done away with, the evils of a dole abolished, and independence, industry, thrift and self respect be once more established amongst our people. The aim of the Church is to help people help themselves.” (Conference Report, Oct. 1936, p. 3) President Romney has emphasized, “To care for people on any other basis is to do them more harm than good. The purpose of Church welfare is not to relieve [a Church member] from taking care of himself.” (Conference Report, Oct. 1974, p. 166; italics added.) The principle of self-reliance or personal independence is fundamental to the happy life. … We have been taught to store a year’s supply of food, clothing, and, if possible, fuel—at home. There has been no attempt to set up storerooms in every chapel. We know that in the crunch our members may not be able to get to the chapel for supplies.” (Boyd K. Packer, Gen Conf., Apr. 1978)
“Family preparedness has been a long-established welfare principle. It is even more urgent today. I ask you earnestly, have you provided for your family a year’s supply of food, clothing, and where possible, fuel? The revelation to produce and store food may be as essential to our temporal welfare today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah.” (Ezra Taft Benson, Ensign, November 1987, p. 49)
“Should the Lord decide at this time to cleanse the Church...a famine in this land of one year’s duration could wipe out a large percentage of slothful members, including some ward and stake officers. (Ezra Taft Benson, Gen. Conf. April 6, 1965)”
“What does it really mean when we say the church will take care of us? Consider the following: My brothers and sisters, throughout the history of the world, the Lord has been concerned for the eternal welfare of the souls of his children. Over the past fifty years, inspired leaders have taught welfare principles to help us plan ahead for difficult times that may come in our lives. The Church has grown and is now spread over many countries throughout the world. But the strength of the Church and the Lord’s real storehouse is in the homes and hearts of his people.” (Robert D. Hales, “Welfare Principles to Guide Our Lives: An Eternal Plan for the Welfare of Men’s Souls,” Ensign, May 1986, p.28)
“The Lord does help when we go to Him in times of need, especially when we are committed to His work and respond to His will. But the Lord only helps those who are willing to help themselves. He expects His children to be self-reliant to the degree they can be. Brigham Young instructed the Saints, ‘Instead of searching after what the Lord is going to do for us, let us inquire what we can do for ourselves.’” (Discourses of Brigham Young, sel. John A. Widtsoe, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1978, p. 293.) (L. Tom Perry, Gen. Conf. Oct. 1991, Becoming Self-Reliant)
“But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” 1 Timothy 5:8
And last, but by no means least, is the following letter from the First Presidency addressing this very topic.
TO THE BISHOPS OF THE VARIOUS WARDS.
SALT LAKE CITY, July 9th, 1883.
Complaints have reached us to the effect that in some of the Wards of the Territory a disposition has been manifested by some of the Bishops presiding to take possession of and disburse the wheat which has been collected by the members ….
This wheat has been collected by the members … in the various wards at considerable trouble and they are the proper custodians thereof and responsible therefor ….
No Bishop has any right, because of his authority as a presiding officer in the ward, to take possession of this grain. It belongs to [those] who have collected it, and it is their province to dispose of it for the purpose for which it has been collected, and it should not be appropriated or disposed of by any Bishop for any other object.
JOHN TAYLOR, GEORGE Q. CANNON, JOSEPH F. SMITH,
First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.
(Messages of the First Presidency, 2:355)
A note regarding this letter – it refers specifically to wheat gathered by the sisters, the members of the Relief Society, because THEY had been admonished to glean the wheat from the fields as a result of the continued disobedience of the men to the command to store their grain rather than sell it. This, the sisters had diligently done. Some bishops then decided that it was their prerogative to take the wheat so gathered and saved, and disburse it as they saw fit. The First Presidency very clearly stated that no, the stored grain belongs to those who put forth the effort to gather and store it and it is theirs to provide for their family, and others as THEY see fit, not as any presiding authority might try to determine for them.

libertygranny
10-16-2016, 10:26 AM
I come from a long line of members on my dad's side, food storage has just always been a way of life for us. Even my mom who was baptized after they married was impressed by the notion of storing since she grew up in a home with alcoholic parents and there was never much in the way of food in the house. So, I do not understand members, especially those with a long line of ancestors in the church, who do not have anything stored!

I was the Home Storage specialist in the ward for over 3 years, 2.5 of those we had no income, but we managed to add to our stores. I heard from a lot of members, especially the younger ones with young families, that they didn't have the money to buy anything every month....yet they took trips, bought Disneyland yearly passes for their family (which is not cheap!), bought new cars, etc. I also heard complaints that they had no where in their big house to store it! And then I would sit in ward council meetings and hear some of these same people say that if anything really bad does ever happen they know where to go to get help...and then they'd look at me! I really had to roll my eyes at the comments that they would also just go to the Bishop's Storehouse to get stuff because those are well stocked and can serve the members in time of crisis! They always seemed to forget that through the Lord's prophets we have been told time and time again that OUR homes are the storehouses, for our family!

And don't get me started on the members who use the Church's welfare help and never give back with any service! and never attend church regularly!

arbilad
10-17-2016, 08:51 AM
Yeah, this attitude really annoys me like no other food storage attitude does. Basically they're saying that they have a right to your food, and they don't need to follow the council of the brethren because you will for them. I can't follow the law of tithing for anyone, so why should anyone expect that someone else can live the food storage law for them?

signseeker
10-18-2016, 07:43 AM
I hadn't seen that First Pres'y letter before. :l0 (5):

DMGNUT
10-18-2016, 11:12 PM
I hadn't seen that First Presidency letter either, but it doesn't surprise me at all.
KF7EEC, if I could, I would have double or triple "liked" your post.

KF7EEC
10-22-2016, 09:18 AM
you guys should go read the comments. https://www.facebook.com/groups/374762462646408?view=permalink&id=1001015466687768

libertygranny
10-22-2016, 09:38 AM
KF7EEC, the link doesn't work.

Bo Smith
10-22-2016, 03:16 PM
KF7EEC, the link doesn't work.

The link looks good. I presume that the content was deleted or in a group that we are not members of.

KF7EEC
10-22-2016, 09:34 PM
The link looks good. I presume that the content was deleted or in a group that we are not members of.

Join this FB group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/ldsemergencyprep/

Bo Smith
10-22-2016, 11:48 PM
Join this FB group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/ldsemergencyprep/

Can't. That shows unavailable content, too.

Probably a closed group. I couldn't even search for it.

DMGNUT
10-23-2016, 01:42 AM
I don't even do the FB thingy, so I'm out too.
What's the basic gist of their comments KF7EEC?

constable01
10-23-2016, 11:15 AM
If I hear members that are wasting money on toys and recreation claiming they can't afford to store basic needs and that they plan to come help themselves to my stores for me and mine when the time comes.....................I will politely remind them that the moment they try to liberate what they need..............THEY WILL HAVE THEIR SUFFERING MADE LIGHT, OR AT LEAST GREATLY SHORTENED!!!(Gunshot wounds tend not to take as long as starvation etc.)

KF7EEC
10-23-2016, 04:31 PM
I don't even do the FB thingy, so I'm out too.
What's the basic gist of their comments KF7EEC?

there is a lot of miracle of loaves and fishes talk about why we need to share our food storage.

Here is one such quote "I have a year's worth of food storage and more. But when times get really bad, I believe the saints will have to come together to survive. I believe the power of the Priesthood will become greater in those days and the power to multiply fishes and loaves will appear. I am prepared, but I trust in the Lord my God to save."

arbilad
10-23-2016, 05:27 PM
there is a lot of miracle of loaves and fishes talk about why we need to share our food storage.

Here is one such quote "I have a year's worth of food storage and more. But when times get really bad, I believe the saints will have to come together to survive. I believe the power of the Priesthood will become greater in those days and the power to multiply fishes and loaves will appear. I am prepared, but I trust in the Lord my God to save."

My issue with this is twofold. First, the commandment to store food is, in my opinion, not the main purpose of the commandment. The commandment exists to give us the faith to get through the last times. The faith can't come by someone else living the commandment for you.
Second, miracles happen where there is faith. If you didn't have the faith to follow the commandment and store food, the Lord isn't likely to multiply loaves and fishes for you. He would multiply them for someone who followed the commandment but lost their storage, for instance, through natural disaster.

Bo Smith
10-23-2016, 06:25 PM
Reminds me of Bro. Swanson, the first counselor in the branch presidency back in Pine Mountain. My first Sunday in the branch. He's speaking of preparedness and says, from the lectern, "If anybody comes to my house to eat, he's gonna eat lead."

Loved that guy. Always wore a western cut suit and had a hat rack right outside the branch president's office, where he hung his cowboy hat.

KF7EEC
10-23-2016, 09:14 PM
My issue with this is twofold. First, the commandment to store food is, in my opinion, not the main purpose of the commandment. The commandment exists to give us the faith to get through the last times. The faith can't come by someone else living the commandment for you.
Second, miracles happen where there is faith. If you didn't have the faith to follow the commandment and store food, the Lord isn't likely to multiply loaves and fishes for you. He would multiply them for someone who followed the commandment but lost their storage, for instance, through natural disaster.

Agreed. You can not share faith with someone else. You can't repent of someone else's sins. while a person is still living, someone else can not do ordinances for them.

signseeker
10-24-2016, 10:29 AM
The Lord doesn't do what we are able to do ourselves. He makes up what we cannot do.

libertygranny
10-24-2016, 10:46 AM
I have a testimony of the miracle of a loaves and fishes type. It was not about us sharing but about us keeping the commandment to store.

Back in 2011 we found ourselves with no job and no income, we spent the next 2 1/2 years with no income until hubby could start receiving his SSI at 62. During that time I was the Home Storage specialist in the ward. I did monthly group orders from various vendors and despite our having no income, living basically on our food storage we not only never ran out of anything, we actually grew our stores of items. Every month the Lord provided enough money for us to order an item or two. When we did have some money to go to the grocery store, I prayed over the money and asked Heavenly Father to guide me to the bargains...and it never failed that I would come home with far more then I thought possible on what little money I had.

I will say though, that we did share with family members who were also going through a rough patch. They too had stores of things, but if we had something they didn't at the time, we shared....only to be blessed later when replenishing the items and being able to replenish double what we gave away.

Would I be in such a giving mood with those who have absolutely refused to do anything on their own to prepare, even though they have read and heard all the admonishments from the prophets? Probably not without a confirmation from the Spirit that I need to, but they will have to work/contribute in some way to receive help at the time. They just can't expect to come over and be handed things.

Aldon
10-24-2016, 02:43 PM
The rest of the story often is overlooked. The Lord returned to the area and great crowds showed up for the wrong reasons. I am sure some were truly hungry and some were looking for an easier day in a life where you could not simply stop for fast food. He was there to feed them spiritually rather than physically and they were not fed fishes and loaves that day.

During a conference talk on healing the sick Elder Oaks quotes Brigham :

The use of medical science is not at odds with our prayers of faith and our reliance on priesthood blessings. When a person requested a priesthood blessing, Brigham Young would ask, “Have you used any remedies?” To those who said no because “we wish the Elders to lay hands upon us, and we have faith that we shall be healed,” President Young replied: “That is very inconsistent according to my faith. If we are sick, and ask the Lord to heal us, and to do all for us that is necessary to be done, according to my understanding of the Gospel of salvation, I might as well ask the Lord to cause my wheat and corn to grow, without my plowing the ground and casting in the seed. It appears consistent to me to apply every remedy that comes within the range of my knowledge, and [then] to ask my Father in Heaven … to sanctify that application to the healing of my body.”

To my way of thinking this is a parallel to do not expect the Lord to cover our Sins of omission.

We are blessed with the yearning to cling to life and procreate. But we who have the gospel should realize that the end goal is not surviving temporally and lingering here but to survive spiritually and return home to the highest kingdom.

I believe that like Tithing is a commandment tied which blesses us for obedience but does not necessarily result in more wealth, the commandment to store food is not necessarily to assure all eat well and suffer not. It is to build faith, allow the Lord to bless us along the way for our obedience and when hard times come, the burdens may be made lighter.

I see the window for preparing and obeying the commandment narrowing. Much like the days of Noah as the time for the floods got closer and closer. It is still possible to obey but it is getting harder with weaker and weaker economy and tighter budgets and church cannery changes etc.... Tougher but still possible. Like the 10 virgins, its getting very close to the hour and stocking up on oil is going to be a bit more challenging.

Hopefully my ward will feel the spirit and those who have some make up work to do will get on the stick.

I appreciate this thread as it has given me a few items I plan to include in my Sacrament talk i was assigned recently.

I