Food storage Catch-22

[rhiamom]

I would love to have two years of food stored. I can't do it, though. You see, the average temperature where I live reduces the shelf life of stored food from 10 or 20 years at normal American room temperatures to 2 years. I'd be eating nothing but my food storage food just to keep it rotated. This is not a good option. Any ideas?

[LoudmouthMormon]

What about a basement? They tend to be around 60 degrees, even in a desert.

[rhiamom]

What about a basement? They tend to be around 60 degrees, even in a desert.

I wish I had a basement! I'd be in it now. It's the hot season, close to 100 every day, lows of mid-eighties at night. No basement, no closets. The only storage area is the cubby under the landing of the stairs where they do a U-turn. The a/c never cools that area because it is closed off with a solid door. A ventilation window would help, but my storage time would still be limited to about 2 years as we spend little time running the a/c downstairs.

But I can easily get a 1000 liter (270 gallon or so) water tank. About $250. Most people here have one. It's on my list of things to do soon. "Here" means the gated, guarded housing development in which we live. Think clubhouse with restaurant and exercise room, swimming pool, and guards patrolling the development on bicycles. Crime rate here is zero.

[Cowboy]

First priority would be to get water, and then a 90 supply of canned goods. Heat and humidity play havoc on dry storage items.

2 Year supply of food is hard to store for anyone. 1 year supply is a challenge. You have to be good at rotation.

[rhiamom]

First priority would be to get water, and then a 90 supply of canned goods. Heat and humidity play havoc on dry storage items.


Good plan. I can do a 90-day supply of canned goods, but it won't be very balanced. I see lots of tuna and ham in my future. Not being able to store dry goods long-term will be hard. Canned beans cost a fortune compared to dry beans! The good news is that Thailand is a major food exporting country, and most of the food is consumed within 2 miles of where it was grown. We may not starve.

[Equanimity]

I don't know. I live in the desert where it always goes about 115 in the summer and I keep my food storage in the house. You just have to get creative where you store it so that it stays cool. Where theres a will theres a way....

[LoudmouthMormon]

I once read about a guy who figured burying your food supply was a good idea, regardless of your climate or location. I don't remember the details, but it involved 6 inches of gravel under a plastic barrell with no bottom, so the water would drain away, and then the actual storage barrel was a steel drum.

Seems a bit involved for me, he seemed more worried about hiding what he had from looters, than in keeping it's temperature down.

LM

[rhiamom]

I don't know. I live in the desert where it always goes about 115 in the summer and I keep my food storage in the house. You just have to get creative where you store it so that it stays cool. Where theres a will theres a way....

There is no place in the house that stays cool. We only run the a/c in any room when we are actually in it.

[silverstate51]

Rhiamom,

Here are some links and excerpts that might be of use to you:

From www.survival-center.com/foodfaq/

Corrosion Prevention of Canned Goods Some areas have difficulty storing metal canned goods for long periods of time. This is usually caused by very high humidity or exposure to salt in a marine environment. If this is a problem, it is possible to extend the life of metal cans by coating their outsides. I've seen this used on boats here in Florida, especially when loading for a long trip. There are at least four methods that can be used to do this:

<dl><dt>Paraffin Method </dt><dd> PARAFFIN METHOD: Using a double boiler, paraffin is melted and brushed on the clean, unrusted cans. Be certain to get a good coat on all seams, particularly the joints. If the can is small enough, it can be dipped directly into the wax. Care must be taken to not cause the labels to separate from the cans. Do not leave in long enough for the can to get warm.
</dd><dt>Paste Wax Method </dt><dd>Combine 2-3 ozs of paste or jelly wax with a quart of mineral spirits. Warm the mixture CAREFULLY in its container by immersing it in a larger container of hot water. DO NOT HEAT OVER AN OPEN FLAME! Stir the wax/spirits thoroughly until it is well mixed and dissolved. Paint the cans with a brush in the same manner as above. Place the cans on a wire rack until dry.
</dd><dt>Spray Silicone </dt><dd>A light coating of ordinary spray silicone may be used to deter rust. Spray lightly, allow to dry, wipe gently with a clean cloth to remove excess silicone.
</dd><dt>Clear Coating </dt><dd>A clear type of spray or brush on coating such as Rustoleum (tm) may be applied. This is best suited for larger reseable cans, but will keep them protected from corrosion for years. </dd></dl>From the US Army Natick Research Lab regarding MRE shelf life:


Some of the best information available on MRE shelf life is the storage life chart (see below) compiled by the U.S. Army's Natick Research Laboratories. This chart provides a good overview and summary of the findings gathered from their testing of MRE Products.


<table width="400" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="2">
MRE Storage
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
Temperature(F?)
</td> <td>
Months of Storage
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
120?
</td> <td>
1
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
110?
</td> <td>
5
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
100?
</td> <td>
22
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
90?
</td> <td>
55
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
80?
</td> <td>
76
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
70?
</td> <td>
100
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
60?
</td> <td>
130
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Optimally, your food storage will be comprised of foods that form your normal diet. A sudden shift to a strange diet, especially during a high stress period, can make you sick. Rotating food storage into your daily diet is a good thing. As you said, you don't want to live solely on your storage, but you don't want it just sitting there never used.

Do you have any land on which to put a garden? Storing seed might be an option to supplementing your storage. Put them in a sealed jar in a refrigerator, to minimize moisture and protect germination.

[NRA]

Good info, silverstate.

[silverstate51]

I would like to assist Rhiamom in being able to store food. I think that the posters to GLO can research and find appropriate information and pass it along to her.

Rhiamom, in order to help us help you, we need some information.

1. What does your families normal diet consist of?

2. Are there any foods you cannot eat for medical reasons (peanuts, shellfish), or will just refuse to eat (egg salad makes me gag, for instance)?

3. What is your domicile? Apartment? House on concrete pad? House on stilts?

4. What is the average temperature in your area? Humidity?

These should give us some starting places for developing a food storage plan with you.

Regards to you and yours.

[Toni]

I don't know. I live in the desert where it always goes about 115 in the summer and I keep my food storage in the house. You just have to get creative where you store it so that it stays cool. Where theres a will theres a way....

But where she lives is moist. Actually, we live in a desert but dh made this house "super insulated" so that even a shower can make the humidity go up unbearably and the house started to "eat" my food storage cans - they started to rust. I moved them into boxes and made sure they were not touching the outer wall. I think that has been helping.

ETA - I see silverstate addressed the issue. Thanks for the advice.

[rhiamom]

1. What does your families normal diet consist of?

2. Are there any foods you cannot eat for medical reasons (peanuts, shellfish), or will just refuse to eat (egg salad makes me gag, for instance)?

3. What is your domicile? Apartment? House on concrete pad? House on stilts?

4. What is the average temperature in your area? Humidity?

We eat a typical American diet, pretty much. Meat, starch, veggie for dinner. Leftovers or a sandwich and/or soup for lunch. Oatmeal or muesli or peanut butter on toast, or yogurt for breakfast. I am diabetic, but other than that I'll eat anything but liver. My husband eats like a three year old. Seriously, down to the different foods not touching on his plate and refusing to try things he thinks he won't like. He likes eat meat, potatoes, pasta, rice, corn, peas, green beans, spinach, asparagus, carrots, kale, and baby bok choy. If they are raw he will eat broccoli, cauliflower, celery, and cabbage. He makes spaghetti, using a local spaghetti sauce, and no meat, whenever he gets hungry late in the evening when I'm sleeping. He keeps odd eating hours, never having breakfast before 1pm.

We eat primarily chicken and pork, with a little bit of beef, and fish every Friday. (Catholics, you know) I am fortunate indeed that my Sweetie bought me a range with a real oven/convection oven for Christmas one year. I CAN do real baking instead of relying on a toaster oven.

We live in a 2-story house on a slab, on a very small lot, completely enclosed by a wall. We have some space where we could grow things, but we have planted a jackfruit tree, a mango tree, and an avocado tree to try to keep the house cooler by shading it. So most of the yard is too shaded to grow most stuff. On the other side of the house, a strip 4 feet wide, I have lemongrass, holy basil, Thai peppers, and Thai basil. The dill and cilantro didn't grow well.

The house has no closets. The only storage space is under the stair landing, a half-height space about 3 by 6 feet. We keep our artificial Christmas tree there, all Christmas decorations (minimal, tree ornaments and lights only) and rarely used kitchen items. There is still a bit of space, and more could be made, to total maybe half the area.

The humidity is 55% 6 months of the year, and 70-80% during the 6-month rainy season. It's not as humid as Michigan! The average high temperature ranges from 82 in the cool season to 104 in the hot season. The average low temperature ranges from 72 in the cool season to 85 in the hot season. But the house never reaches those lows - the heat it gains during the day doesn't dissipate. No insulation. In fact, it is often warmer in the house than outside. We sometimes open all the doors and windows at night, which can cool the place off considerably, but then we have to contend with the mosquitos that are so small they fit through the mesh of the screens. Mosquitos that may be carrying malaria, dengue fever, or Japanese encephalitis.

If the last two years are any indication of a shift in climate, it is getting cooler here, with more rain in the allegedly dry season, and much cooler in the cool season. This year it got down to the high fifties a couple of times, last year into the very low sixties. But I can't count on that for next year, or any year.

I can get white flour without much trouble, but the whole wheat flour I can get is infested with nasty little beetle looking bugs when I buy it. I freeze all grain products for a week or so to kill any bugs and eggs. I cannot get wheat berries. I can get huge quantities of rice cheaply, but it does terrible things to my blood sugar. We try brown rice, again and again, but we don't much care for it.

I can't get canned vegetables much. No real market for them here. The ones I can get my husband won't eat. (Beets, sauerkraut) I cannot get cheese powder or powdered eggs. I can get canned red kidney beans, and Campbell's pork and beans. Not the same, but good enough if I doctor it a bit. I can get honey, but I can't be sure if it's pure, unwatered. I can't read the Thai on the labels.

It's hard to find dry beans. Lentils and split peas I have never seen, but I haven't done a heavy search for them in Bangkok.When you can find dry beans, you have to soak them for 24 hours and then cook them for 12 to make them tender.

I can get Campbell's Cream soups, and I use those a bit in my cooking. I can get lovely small canned pork shoulder (use as ham) and Spam and canned tuna. I mix up my own Bisquick substitute, but it has to be kept in the freezer -I use canola oil instead of shortening.

Currently we make our own yogurt (the melamine scare included the brand I had been eating daily!) and our own refrigerator garlic dill pickles. When we set out to make something, we do it using only local supplies, not anything imported. I do have a 4-quart pressure cooker, a Presto brand. I can't adjust the weight to increase the pressure. I can get the old style glass canning jars with rubber rings and wire clamps, in sizes from a pint to 2 quarts.

It is prohibitively expensive to have anything shipped over here.

[Toni]

Wow, you really do have a huge challenge with food storage - no matter what you would be willing to store!

[rhiamom]

Wow, you really do have a huge challenge with food storage - no matter what you would be willing to store!

Thank you so much! I really want it to be clear that I'm not interested in simply shooting down everybody's ideas on how to store food. I have already begun, in a small way, to implement the 90 days of primarily canned goods already suggested. I'll do more after I sit down with a spreadsheet and do some math to calculate exactly what I need. I can buy and freeze some veggies my husband will eat, working on an assumption that I will have reliable electricity at least for a while. I think I saw a few cans of potatoes at the store while I was buying bread last night (and 3 extra canned hams); if so I'll buy those potatoes next time I grocery shop. And some canned tomatoes. At least I can get those easily!

Because we are a family of only two people, pint jars of most things would be sufficient, and I think they might fit into my pressure cooker. Is the amount of pressure in a Presto pressure cooker sufficient to can potatoes? I think I remember vegetable canning needing more pressure, hence the adjustable weight things on the fancy big pressure canners. I have canned fruit in the past, boiling water bath, and that's easy to the point of ridiculous.

[CurtisG]

I once read about a guy who figured burying your food supply was a good idea, regardless of your climate or location. I don't remember the details, but it involved 6 inches of gravel under a plastic barrell with no bottom, so the water would drain away, and then the actual storage barrel was a steel drum.

Seems a bit involved for me, he seemed more worried about hiding what he had from looters, than in keeping it's temperature down.

LM
Thats a variation of a budget root cellar. The old timers would cover the stash with straw and leaves. Keeps the food pretty safe from rodents and most insects too.

[mirkwood]

Yea, my dad has complained of the same things. He wants to store more food, but the humidity is the challenge. I have not come up with any ideas that I felt would work for him (or you).

[Toni]

I don't know if this would work, but how about dried foods. If you could get a dehydrator, perhaps you could dry foods, put them in jars, and add an oxygen absorber (if you could get some). Your idea about using pint jars sounds good. I don't know anything about bottling potatoes. I've never done it. I'm wondering if one of the canning suppliers (like Ball) has a website with info like that on it. At the least, they might have a FAQ sections or a Contact Us where you could ask them about your particular area and such.

[rhiamom]

I'm slowly but surely working on my 90 day supply of ordinary foods. I figured out a set of menus with enough variation to keep us from getting too bored.

And my local supermarket has begun to carry dried beans! I bought lentils, split peas, and great northern beans. I may get some black and adzuki beans, too. I already made lentil soup with ham and carrots for lunch one day in my crockpot. I do love beans of almost any kind.

Toni, I have been thinking that a dehydrator might be a good idea, as you have suggested. How do I store the dehydrated food, though? Once again you run into the issue of heat and humidity if I put them into canning jars. And where do I get the oxygen remover packets?

[goldilocks]

Get storage anyway and ask the Lord to help you get the best items for your area. You will be blessed for being obedient .

[Toni]

That was what I was wondering, rhiamom - could you get the oxygen packets - The heat of the area shouldn't be a factor since foods are dried using heat. The humidity is what concerns me. You could try putting them in bottles w/out an oxygen absorber but my concern is that the humidity in the air could put enough in the bottles to mold the food. I may be making a problem where there is none. I don't know.

I think goldilocks has a point. Do what you can do and trust God to help you in what you cannot do. Remember the story in the Old Testament about the widow and her son. She had barely enough meal and oil for herself and her son but she fed a prophet. He stayed with her and for the duration of the famine, her oil & meal never ran out. I think miracles like this still happen today.

[phylm]

I would "oven can" dehydrated food if I couldn't get oxygen packs. Florida is very humid, too, but I find if I finish off solar dried vegetables overnight over the pilot light in my gas oven that the dried food keeps well just in jars capped tightly without the work of canning them, too.

[hmscarrie]

Surely there is someone who lives in your climate who has some food stored up? Not necessarily because they are storing up for hard times, but just because some people like to have extra on hand, if that makes sense. In other words, not for religious reasons, but just because it's their style. And what about the larger food suppliers? Food is produced somewhere, and then has to be stored before it gets to where it is going; how do the suppliers store their food, and what kind of food do they store? Where your storage challenges are unique to your climate, I would think the people who have the answers for you are the people who already have reason to store food in your climate.

I was also thinking about the oxygen packets. You can order things from online, can't you? Seems like somebody would ship them to you.

Oh, and about the brown rice, I have recently discovered something called short grain brown rice. I'm grain challenged, though, so I don't know what exactly that is or how to find it, but maybe knowing the name might help you get started. I like the short grain brown rice much better than the long grain.

[ghostcat]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the use of desiccants. That is what you use in humid climates to prevent things in a closed container from absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. If I were Rhiamoms shoes I would dehydrate my food in a dehydrator of some sort (electric, solar, or oven), I would then put it in a zip lock bag or other closed container with a small packet of desiccant.

The desiccant itself can be readily obtained in bulk from craft stores on line (it's used for drying and preserving flowers, it is also the same stuff you get small packets of in the box when you buy new electronics). I would then sew up some small pouches of unbleached muslin to hold about a tablespoon or so of desiccant (how much to use will depend on the efficiency of the desiccant and the relative humidity where the food will be packaged). I would put the packet in the oven for an hour or so before putting it in the container to make sure that it starts out nice and dry.

Since the desiccant is hygroscopic(loves water) it drys out the atmosphere around it, if the container it is in is impervious to water and stays sealed it will keep everything inside dry as well. Desiccants have been used for centuries as a food preservation method, the most well known of these used in the past was common salt. I would be more inclined to use a different type in my packets though as there are some that are less chemically reactant or are chemically inert. The ones I'm thinking off are silica gel, chalk, and clay based desiccants.

Silica gel would be my preferred desiccant as it is so efficient as well as being chemically inert. If you are unable for some reason to get a hold of silica gel, you can make a desiccant by breaking up the gypsum, that is found in drywall or wall board, into a fine powder. then baking it in a 300 degree oven for an hour or two (the time will vary based on the relative humidity and the beginning moisture content of the gypsum) before using it.

[phylm]

Walton Foods sells the oxygen pacs.

[Toni]

I've gotten dessicants in my oil based vitamin capsules (A, E, D).

[rhiamom]

Thanks for all the advice. Just for the record, getting anything shipped here is risky, as packages simply don't ever arrive. In fact, not all of our mail arrives, never mind the parcels.

However, the question has become moot. Due to a combination of personal reasons and the political situation, we will be moving back to the US, probably in November. We are currently trying to eat what food I stored so as to not have it go to waste. We can't ship it, it's too bulky. They charge by the cubic foot. Back home to Michigan, just in time for winter. I had been hoping to get back in time to have a couple of tomato plants and to get a rosemary bush established. No such luck. Well, I ought to be able to buy canning supplies at the off-season discount.

[silverstate51]

Rhiamom,

Perhaps you could donate any food you have left over to local charity, or perhaps the LDS missionaries, or the Catholic (I believe you said you were RC) Church in Thailand.
I'm sure someone here could connect you to an LDS ward in the area of Michigan you're moving to, and possibly help you get started now on food storage. This way, you'd have some waiting for you, and could make contact with some new friends when you got to Michigan.

[DMGNUT]

For future reference... in real high humidity areas, what generally works best, is plastic pails with a mylar bag liner inside. The plastic provides a rigid storage container and the mylar provides the oxygen barrier. You would purge all the oxygen from the bag of "whatever you are storing" and then seal it. There are several ways to purge the oxygen from the mylar bag, but one of the easiest, is to simply put a board, with a block of dry ice on it, over the top of the pail with the mylar bag of "whatever you are storing" wide open, directly under it. The dissolving/evaporating dry ice, becomes carbon dioxide, which is heavier than air and will displace the oxygen in the bag. By placing a small birthday candle just inside the top of your "food filled" container, you'll know when the air is gone, when the candle goes out. I'd still put a couple oxygen absorbers in the container too (for what little bit of oxygen is still just inside the top of the bag when you seal it shut). No oxygen and no metal = no mold and no rust. The pails still really need to be stored under "normal" room temperatures.
Just my 2 cents...

[BackBlast]

... is plastic pails with a mylar bag liner inside. ...

+1, buckets and mylar!

[rhiamom]

Rhiamom,

Perhaps you could donate any food you have left over to local charity, or perhaps the LDS missionaries, or the Catholic (I believe you said you were RC) Church in Thailand.
I'm sure someone here could connect you to an LDS ward in the area of Michigan you're moving to, and possibly help you get started now on food storage. This way, you'd have some waiting for you, and could make contact with some new friends when you got to Michigan.

Good idea to donate any excess food. Since we are not moving until October, most likely we will be able to eat all of it. That will also save us some money that will be nice to have to put toward the expense of moving. Being as my husband is a GM retiree, any saved money will be really handy when GM goes bankrupt. Due to his age, the PBGC will pay a maximum of about $1500 a month - about half what he currently gets. Little enough that we will no longer be able to qualify for a retiree visa in Thailand.

We are still trying to finalize our living arrangements. We have applied for an apartment in a fabulous location that takes full advantage of the excellent A2/Ypsi bus system. We'd like to try living without a car for at least 3 months to see how it goes. You can't do that many places, but it seems possible there. And I'll be looking for a food coop; probably one of the United ones. Pickup will have to be pretty local, or on a bus route. Getting 45 pound pails of wheat home seems unlikely, though, no matter how much I'd like to buy them.

[Earthling]

My daughter in France does not have a car. They use the bus, Metro, and rent a car about once a month to do larger shopping, etc. It is cheaper to rent a car one weekend a month than to own one. Just a thought for you RhiaMom.

[silverstate51]

Rhiamom,

Perhaps one of the people who sell you the 45 lb bucket of wheat will deliver it. At least the first time. People in the ward area you're moving to will be most helpful.

[rhiamom]

Silverstate, I hope you are right, but I doubt it. The last time I contacted a few local LDS wards in that area -10 years ago- I was told that bulk purchasing was for members only, and time at the cannery would have to be arranged by myself as I would not be allowed to go in with a ward. Any ward. Now, I know rules are rules, and the intent is to get food storage for church members, but just letting me in on a ward bulk purchase couldn't have been harmful to any member in any way. I can see where cannery time could have kept some food from the church stores for the poor, so I understood that.

Overall, it left me with a really bad taste toward the local wards. There are many really nice LDS people (like you!), but they don't seem to live in SE Michigan. They don't even drink Coke there, interpreting the WoW as being against caffeine. Herbal tea is okay, though. The Utah Mormons I have known drink Coke but would never touch herbal tea. Hot drinks. It's not as homogeneous a group as I would have thought.

[silverstate51]

It's not as homogeneous a group as I would have thought

Rhiamom,

The LDS are like anyone else. Put 4 Mormons in a room, and you'll get 4 opinions. Same as Catholics, Baptists, etc.

Perhaps a quid pro quo is in order. Can you volunteer to help the LDS ward with something? Become involved with them?

Now, I know rules are rules, and the intent is to get food storage for church members, but just letting me in on a ward bulk purchase couldn't have been harmful to any member in any way.

If they do it for you, won't they have to do it for your friend, and your friend's friend? Members of a ward can be held to account for monies owed for food storage. I imagine too many wards have been burned by non-members ordering and thinking it would be delivered to their door. Heck, too many LDS members think the stake cannery will can and store their food for them.

Having said that, perhaps you can serve as a bridge between your parish and the local ward(s) in establishing a small scale cannery. A worthy endeavor for a retired couple.

[Toni]

That's really sad, rhiamom. I wonder if things have changed in the past ten years. I don't blame you for not wanting to try again. http://beprepared.com/ sells food in cans and buckets. You could check them out. I've gotten some fruit from them that is simply freeze dried fruit. Nothing added. They'll send you a catalog if you ask. I find paper catalogs easier and more fun to look at than a screen where you have to click and hunt. Of course, you'll probably want to wait until you're back in the states to ask for it.

Best of luck to you.

[rhiamom]

The LDS are like anyone else. Put 4 Mormons in a room, and you'll get 4 opinions.

I was referring a bit to doctrine but primarily to rules; you thought that they would be helpful, and perhaps your ward is. Trust me, the helpfulness ends once they think you aren't a conversion candidate back in SE Michigan. They are a very insular group who avoid contact with non-convertible non-Mormons as much as possible.

Perhaps a quid pro quo is in order. Can you volunteer to help the LDS ward with something? Become involved with them?

I doubt they would be open to this. It doesn't really matter, because I know my husband would be against it. He's against my involvement in any church.

If they do it for you, won't they have to do it for your friend, and your friend's friend? Members of a ward can be held to account for monies owed for food storage.

Not all that many non-Mormons are interested in food storage. Although I do know of one Catholic food storage website! I would have expected to pay up front, it's the only logical way to work it. And it would have increased the size of the order, possibly gaining a better discount for everybody.

Having said that, perhaps you can serve as a bridge between your parish and the local ward(s) in establishing a small scale cannery. A worthy endeavor for a retired couple.

That is a wonderful idea. Unfortunately, it means being involved with two churches. Note the previously mentioned oppositon of my husband to any church activity. I wasn't even able to go to Mass on Easter. I did make it a proper Lent with a penitential practice and no meat on any Fridays. At least in the US I will be able to hop on a bus and get to Mass. I don't like going out of my home alone, but I very well may to get to church.

Silverstate, you and the other people like you on this board help me keep my faith in the essential goodness of people. Thank you for all your help and support.

[phylm]

rhiamom,

Years ago, long before I became a member of the LDS church, I took part in group orders in the local ward. The church no longer approves that type of activity...competiton with local business, etc., as it was explained to me. Here in Florida, one sister in the ward takes orders for a shipment from Walton Foods twice a year, but it is not sponsored by the ward, and, although the load is delivered to the church parking lot, the doors to the building are locked. She collects the money due for the orders before ordering from Walton.

As for the church storage and dry canning center, we have several non-members who go often with us to buy and can food. They are good people, and we have a good time with them. They go either on scheduled ward trips, or with members who set their own appointments.

You may find that things have changed in Michigan. I sure hope so. Good luck to you.

[rhiamom]

WooHoo! Returning to the US will give me easier access to food suited for storage, and a better environment for storing it. God is good.

So, I will have a bit of My Own Money to spend after I arrive. Enough that I can afford to shell out for one of those big shipments of superpails and #10 cans. Not two years worth, but a really good start. Is that a worthwhile thing to do? While I'm not totally thrilled with the precise contents of a set by anybody, the cost savings of buying a set is considerable.

The rest of My Own Money will go for a Bosch Universal plus a few attachments, including the Family Grain Mill, Bosch adapter, and manual handle.

[mirkwood]

Sounds like a good idea. What are you buying exactly and from whom?

[rhiamom]

I haven't decided. Whatever I get I will need to supplement!

Provident Living/Emergency Essentials seems to have the best prices; Walton seems to have the best set contents and shipping rates; Thrive has the best customization so you get what you actually need, but perhaps the steepest prices. Advice is solicited.

For example, we totally do not need a superpail of rice. I can't eat it without doing serious damage to my blood sugar levels even with my meds, and in a situation where we are relying on long term food storage getting my metformin might not be possible. My husband won't eat lima beans. (Or most other vegetables, either, but that's a whole issue to itself)

Whatever I do, I should like to buy single cans and taste test them, and try them on my husband, before I spend substantial piles of money. He's picky, and food he won't eat is useless. I need to see if he will tolerate hard white wheat bread; he detests hard red wheat bread, even cut with half white flour.

[mirkwood]

Looks to me like you are hitting the right sources. It is a matter now of deciding what best suits your diet and finances.

[signseeker]

Whatever I do, I should like to buy single cans and taste test them, and try them on my husband, before I spend substantial piles of money. .

I'm still in the middle of doing this. It's fun and when you hit something you like, it's really fun. :l0 (21):

[rhiamom]

Okay, I have a couple questions. Walton has grains in something called an RB, as opposed to a SP or #10 can. I know what a #10 can is, and what a superpail is. I have no idea what an RB might be.

I am also confused by all the different kinds of instant, dry, and dehydrated milks. Can somebody explain the differences to me?

[arbilad]

A super pail is also lined on the inside and is filled with nitrogen. I believe that it also holds more than a RB (regular bucket). A #10 can is a large coffee can style can. It's the largest size can that you see in stores. If you want to buy small sizes that you will try on your husband, then better to buy #2.5 cans, where available.
Regular dry milk is harder to prepare than instant dry milk, but you can fit more in one can because it compacts easily. Instant dry milk is easier to prepare, but you get less milk per can effectively.

[rhiamom]

Thanks, Arbilad! So, RB is regular bucket, without the mylar packaging and nitrogen. That would be perfectly fine if the contents were for immediate use rather than long term storage. I'll bear that in mind if my husband likes home made white whole wheat bread enough to make it our regular bread. I expect I'll be ordering rye, though, in order to have some kind of bread he'll eat.

Pesky Polish/Prussian/Russian/Austrian forebears seem to have imprinted him with a preference for rye. And sourdough dark rye at that.