questions about onions, and heirloom seeds

[hmscarrie]

I've never had any success growing onions. Can any of you tell me what has worked for you? Like, seeds versus starts (and if starts are better, what do we do when we can't get them at the local garden store?)

Oh, I also have a question about heirloom plants...I know they are supposed to be better for seed saving because the seeds reproduce true to the parent plant; I also know they don't produce as much and are more susceptible, because it is the hybrids that have the disease susceptibility bred out of them. So some people say that we should plant hybrids now while we can get them, and deal with heirlooms later.

But aren't heirlooms in general harder to grow? Don't we need the practice?

Hmm, speaking of heirlooms...would it be possible to, say, keep some part of the hybrid plant alive and graft it onto the root of a plant grown from heirloom? If it could be brought inside in the winter, some part of the hybrid could be preserved for propagating by non-seed methods, perhaps? I used to know a lot about gardening, but it's been too long since I studied it.

[signseeker]

I'd like to know the answers to these questions, too!

I planted 160 onion "bulbs" the 16th of March. I will let you know how they do. I've never tried onions before. I've seen bunches of "starts" for sale at Wal-Mart.

I'm also going to start some tomato heirloom seeds and will let you know how they do. I'll probably plant them (in a starter tray thingey) this week.

I'm wondering... just because a seed doesn't breed true to its parent because it's a hybrid... I mean, who cares? You're still going to get a tomato, right? You just don't know exactly what's going to come out. Or is it that they are like mules and are incapable of reproducing?

[Julie]

I'm wondering... just because a seed doesn't breed true to its parent because it's a hybrid... I mean, who cares? You're still going to get a tomato, right? You just don't know exactly what's going to come out. Or is it that they are like mules and are incapable of reproducing?

You are right. They will go back to their parent which was probably an heirloom to begin with. I know of a lady who got hybrid corn and she kept the seed and has planted it year after year with good results. Actually the seed has adapted to her growing conditions and does quite well.

I look out in my garden right now and I only have a few tomatoes and some burpless cucumbers that are hybrid.
My green beans, peppers, pickling cucumbers, onions, lettuce, spinach, beets, radishes, squashes are not hybrid. I could easily save the seed from these. I had tried a bunch of different varieties of heirloom tomatoes but a big wind came up and dumped my tray with my starts in over and mixed them all up. I had planned on saving the seeds and the varieties that did the best. Maybe next year.

[prairiemom]

I plant the onion bulbs. We have such a short growing season, that's the only thing that will work.

As for heirloom: It is NOT true that they produce less. My Amish Paste tomatoes produce bumper crops almost every year. You have to experiment with different varieties to find the ones that do the best with your soil, climate, temps, bugs, etc. Every heirloom has strengths and weaknesses and it all depends on what your garden is like. For best results, I look for heirlooms that are native to my region or to regions with similar conditions (like the Ukraine. ;)) That's where that plant developed, adapted and thrived.

Heirlooms are also superior for their flavor and nutrition content. The hybrids were developed to meet different demands: shippability, uniformity, early ripening, disease resistence, etc. and sacrifice flavor or vitamin content to get it. Straight Eight cucumbers, for example, were developed because they wanted perfect straight cucumbers for slicing. They are pretty and uniform, but I think they are the most tasteless cucumber on earth. I prefer Marketmore, which, because of our erratic rainfall, can sometimes be a little lumpy or stubby, but the flavor is great. Or Cornishon Pickling cukes. People want a perfectly round (and early! and fail-proof) tomato, so they grow Early Girl which I think is so mediocre (1000X better than what's in the store, but still mediocre.) Most won't touch the more flavorful Purple Prudens (also called "the ugliest tomato" because it's all lumpy.)

As for disease: There are natural disease control methods. E.g: to prevent fusarium wilt in the nightshade family (tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, etc) rotate where you plant. Don't plant in the same place more than once in 3-4 yrs. I divide my garden into 1/4's and rotate my garden plans 90? every year. I plant all the nightshades in one quarter, all the brassicas in another, all the cucurbits in another and rotate their place every year. I don't have problems with beans or root crops, so I just fill those in wherever I can.

Also, there are good books on companion planting--like dill next to beans, marigolds to prevent nematodes, basil next to tomatoes, etc. Some companion planting helps with production, some help deter pests.

[signseeker]

Awesome! I am so stoked! :l0 (62):

I am trying 4 different heirloom tomatoes this year and if one (or more :frusty:) doesn't do so well, I'll try a new type next time. One of them is a white cherry-sized tomato and I have Cherokee Purple... can't remember right now... something from Germany, I think...:confused:

I got them at tomatobob.com and he gives you quite a bit of growing info, too, and info on the variety. :yesnod:

[Wasatch Rebel]

I was listening to Larry Sagers on the KSL Greenhouse program and somebody called in and asked a question about hybrid seeds, specifically tomatoes and what would happen if you let them go to seed. His answer was that in many cases, the seed would revert to one of the parent plant species, which may not be desirable at all. The example he gave was that many plants are hybridized to give them better resistance to certain diseases, and that the tomato plant that had that resistance, possibly from Peru, didn't have fruit that was very good at all and very possibly was tiny. So, yes, you might get a tomato to grow from the seed, but you might not like what you get. But hey, it's worth trying isn't it? It's just better to know what might happen before you spend all summer watering and weeding. Of course, that doesn't really apply to heirlooms supposedly.
Another thing he said was that a lot of people are trying to plant gardens this year, many more than in years past and that some of the seeds may become scarce quickly. In other words, buy your seeds soon.

[prairiemom]

I'm trying that Italian Ice Cherry tomato this year too! I'll be curious to see how yours does. I'm definitely saving the seeds from that one because they were so expensive to buy. :001_smad:

That's the fun of buying from the catalog--trying all the different varieties to see what you like best. Last year Bright Lights was such a hit, it's going to be a standard in our garden.

I've never heard of tomatobob. I'll have to look that up. I've always ordered from totallytomato.com. Thanks.

[Julie]

I found some Amish Paste tomato seed in my old seed. I have three plants to try out this year. We'll see how they handle the heat.
I order a lot of my seeds from Peaceful Valley. The plants I get from their seed are very hardy and fruitful. They have about every variety I have heard of and they are organic gardeners. In my orders I have received free packets of different varieties to try. I think that is how i got my Amish Paste seeds.

http://www.groworganic.com/default.html?welcome=T&theses=4404745