Healthy and Strong Seedlings

[signseeker]

Okay, my tomato seedlings are going gang-busters and I'm afraid I'm going to get spindly plants.

How do you harden off the seedlings and get nice stocky plants?

I put them outside in the sun for 60 min. today - they are only about 2 days above ground.

I'm going to put a fan on them most of the day.

They are only having sunlight by a window - no light bulbs. But I'm going to cover some cardboard with foil and put that behind them.

I'm also brushing them with my hand a few times a day. (Sounds harsh, but I read it on at least 6 websites, so I figured it was alright.)

Anything other tips? I'm in the Danger Zone now - I figure if I can get healthy seedlings to the garden, I'm home free.

[cHeroKee]

A major problem right now is your soil temperature. I assumed you started the seeds in the house?
If you were to plant the seeds outside when you did start them in the house or right now the seeds would not germinate due to insufficient soil temp. The root system will not expand much, thus giving you stalled growth. The tomato loves heat. I have ~ 100 tomato plants in the house right now and I won't plant them until last of May. They are doing great especially the Cherokee Purples (~2 ft high).
If you are in Utah we will have frost until around the mid to late May. Tomatoes only need one shot at cold temps and they are done, even if they make it past the frost. You will need to baby them until June.
Making a plant hardy is not hard to do, so I wouldn't be doing it now.

I would dig them back up and put them back inside.

[Julie]

This is what I do as soon as my tomatoes are up. They are out in the day and in at night. Otherwise they will go spindly. Been there done that. I have a shelf unit that can be a greenhouse with a plastic cover, at Lowe's for about $35. My tomatoes loved it. It kept the heat and humidity in.

[cHeroKee]

One other option is using wall-of-water. It will keep your plant warm and do some soil warming but still will be very slow to grow.

[Aldon]

I think you can also plant them deeper when you put them in the ground and the part that is under earth will root.

[Earthling]

I have my seedlings in trays and put the trays outside on nice days (no rain & snow) & bring them inside in the evening. I use the covers until they germinate and sprout.

[phylm]

I think you can also plant them deeper when you put them in the ground and the part that is under earth will root.

Aldon is right. Be sure to strip the leaves/stems off the part you are going to put underground. It makes a much stronger root system, and will pay off as soon as the plant gets itself established.

[signseeker]

My tomatoes are in a tray - 72 pods, but I put 2 seeds in each. Interestingly, the seeds from tomatobob.com are doing much better than the Wal-Mart ones.

I'm wanting to just set the tray outside when it's nice, in the sun. So it sounds like I can do this - they're not "too young" or anything for direct sun? I'll bring them in at night.

Cherokee- You have 100 plants?!?! Do you do mega canning, or what?

What are some experiences you've all had with the different varieties?

[prairiemom]

My tomatoes are in a tray - 72 pods, but I put 2 seeds in each. Interestingly, the seeds from tomatobob.com are doing much better than the Wal-Mart ones.

I'm wanting to just set the tray outside when it's nice, in the sun. So it sounds like I can do this - they're not "too young" or anything for direct sun? I'll bring them in at night.

Cherokee- You have 100 plants?!?! Do you do mega canning, or what?

What are some experiences you've all had with the different varieties?

That's interesting about the seed viability. One more reason to order from catalogs?

There's only one cure for spindly plants--LOTS of sunlight. OR put them very close (almost touching) to a full-spectrum light. The light should be from 1 cool and 1 warm fluorescent bulb. You can buy a cheapo shop 4' lamp and put the bulbs into that and hang it close to the plants.

100 plants!!! I planted 50 one year and had to give away about 1/3 of what they produced and still had enough canned tomato products to last 2 yrs. I now plant 25-30 each year. But then maybe our plants produce a lot more than where you are?

[signseeker]

Okay, some of the first little leaves are getting like a "pinch" thing in the middle. Like, when you look at them from the top, instead of a long oval shape, some have a longish snow-man shape. Snow-man with two parts, not the usual three.

Remember my Rutgers Select were taking a longer time to sprout than the others? Well, they were just sprouting when I started to put them outside. Now the earliest ones are pretty tall (I'm trying to get them stronger as soon as this flippin' storm is done) and I'm more worried about them, but the Rutgers Select are short and strong. Eva's Purple Ball are probably the prettiest looking right now. I'm worried about Cherokee Purples and the Brandywines, both of which sprouted so dang fast and got tall real fast. Soon as possible, they're going back outside.

[Toni]

Around here, regular tomatoes get a thick skin and the plants don't produce many tomatoes. I've been told it's because of the wind blowing spores (or something) off the tumbleweeds. In any case, I don't have any problems at all with cherry tomatoes and pear tomatoes. I did have some good regular tomatoes when I planted them against the east wall of my house (it blocked the wind coming from the southwest).

[signseeker]

Well, the seedlings are still coming along. They are getting stronger and I'm pretty pleased overall with how they're doing so far. The Snow White (white cherry tomato) did the worst. I planted 12 of them and *might* get one good plant. The Rutgers Select probably look the best (from Wal-Mart!) but the Eva's Puple Ball and the Brandywines are doing great, too. The Cherokee Purples have evened beefed up more than I expected. Homestead looks good and Borgo Cellano, too.

When do you usually put your plants outside in the garden?

Still waiting to hear more details from Cherokee on his massive number of plants!!

[Hidden Arrow]

I had an interesting little experience with seedlings yesterday. My neighbor bought a six-pack of tomatoes and planted a couple, and gave the rest to me. Then there was a frost night, and her tomato plants are frost-nipped, while mine that were inside are fine. Of course this probably seems obvious to you experienced gardeners, but I've never actually observed this, just heard about it, so it was interesting to me.

[signseeker]

Are hers going to make it? What does frost-nip look like?

[Hidden Arrow]

I don't think so. Well, one might. It looks like dead leaves on a green stem. Unless the stem dies too, then it looks like dead leaves on a dead stem. And it has kind of a mushy look to it, like lettuce that's been in the dressing too long.

[Earthling]

It's not nipped . . . it's dead & gone. You can't plant tomatoes in Northern Utah generally until all chance of frost is gone - usually around Mother's Day - unless you are covering them, using cold caps, wall-o-water or something to protect them.

[Hidden Arrow]

Yah, looks like she's going to have to replant. Maybe I'll give her back some of the plants she gave me!

[signseeker]

I was just going to ask when I can plant my seedlings - thanks, earthling!

I've been thinning them (well, plucking the runts and weird-lookers) as we go along. By next week I'll just keep the absolute best-looking and strongest plants. Since I want to keep the seeds from these guys, I'm being extra picky.

I read that the gov't standard for germination for tomatoes is 75%. That makes me feel pretty good. And Seed to Seed says you can keep tomato seeds for 4-10 years! Sweet!

I didn't start them until April 5, so maybe I won't plant them outside 'till closer to Memorial Day - get them a little bigger. We'll see.

[Hidden Arrow]

IIRC, I once heard Larry Sagers say that the days to production is measured from when the plant is put outside, whether it started from seed outside or is transplanted outside. If that's true, you don't gain any production time from starting inside, but the plants are more likely to survive if they are not fragile when they go out. I have never checked into this further, however; maybe some of you have experience that confirms or belies that.

[signseeker]

I thought it was the time from when the seed sprouted until production...??

[Hidden Arrow]

Well, that's certainly the conventional wisdom, but I'm not sure it's right. We ought to do an experiment. It would have to be the same variety of plant, started at the same time but some kept inside for some weeks and some started outside.

[signseeker]

So, you're saying seed started outside in the garden where it will live its life, has the chance of catching up to and producing tomatoes as early as the plant started 6 weeks earlier indoors?

Interesting... Sure would be a heck of a lot easier!

[Julie]

I see tomato plants in the store that are big and have tomatoes on them. I have some tomato plants that came up volunteer in my garden and they are not any where as big as the ones I started and that are blooming and setting on tomatoes. There are reasons tomatoes are started indoors and early and that is to get the early tomatoes.

[cHeroKee]

My tomatoes are in a tray - 72 pods, but I put 2 seeds in each. Interestingly, the seeds from tomatobob.com are doing much better than the Wal-Mart ones.

I'm wanting to just set the tray outside when it's nice, in the sun. So it sounds like I can do this - they're not "too young" or anything for direct sun? I'll bring them in at night.

Cherokee- You have 100 plants?!?! Do you do mega canning, or what?

What are some experiences you've all had with the different varieties?
No I sell them and give some away.

[Hidden Arrow]

I see tomato plants in the store that are big and have tomatoes on them. I have some tomato plants that came up volunteer in my garden and they are not any where as big as the ones I started and that are blooming and setting on tomatoes. There are reasons tomatoes are started indoors and early and that is to get the early tomatoes.Well if you've seen evidence then that would belie what I heard. I wonder if it's equally true for all plants? Maybe what I heard was specific to some particular variety, or to some specific situation. And of course it's always possible I misunderstood or remember wrong. No harm done. Questions are the stuff of science.

[signseeker]

I read a book... I think it was "Gardening When It Counts" or something...??? Anyhow, I think the premise there was planting directly in the garden was best... they might've even claimed the plants "catch up" to harvest time and in the end, they're all there together. I really don't know.

[cHeroKee]

I read a book... I think it was "Gardening When It Counts" or something...??? Anyhow, I think the premise there was planting directly in the garden was best... they might've even claimed the plants "catch up" to harvest time and in the end, they're all there together. I really don't know.
I can see that but the most important thing is the soil temperature, which will allow the "catching up to occur.
If grown in the house and one doesn't have sufficient and effective lighting then the growth will be stunted and will need time once in the ground to start back up to it's optimum growing cycle. So I can see where you're coming from with the info from the book.

[prairiemom]

Yeah, I could never have tomatoes, peppers or many herbs if I didn't start them early. We simply don't have the growing season, with frosts as late as May 25 and as early as mid Sept. Even as it is I still have too many green tomatoes and not enough fully ripened (red or yellow) peppers.

[signseeker]

Alright, I've transferred some of them to their own individual 9oz. cups now. I've transferred the Brandywines (which are now the biggest), the Rutgers Select (which are looking very good) and the Homestead (which are also looking very good). Tonight I'd like to transfer the last three- Cherokee Purples (I'm going to cull the ones with the stupid S-curve stems), Eva's Purple Ball and Borgo Cellano (an oval-ish cherry tomato).

I think I'll plant them out in the garden around the end of the month. I'm going to have 70 plants. :yikes: I'm actually pretty happy about that - I had no idea how they'd do or if I'd kill them all or what. If I can't keep up with canning, there's always the Farmer's Market and the folks and the folks' friends and so on...

Yay for tomatoes! :thumbup:

[signseeker]

Okay, I've got them out in the garden now. They are looking just swell. We had a downpour yesterday and I was afraid they were going to get pummeled into the ground, but they made it. The Brandywines look fantastic and the Rutgers Select are right up there, too. I was a bit disappointed with the Cherokee Purples and Eva's Purple Ball ... maybe they are just smaller plants? Borgo Cellano looks great, too.

I've got them in cages and dh is going to put some of the rest in hanging containers. I still have some leftovers... hmm...

I've got all the rest of the seeds in the garden, too. Indian popcorn, watermelon, cantaloupe, green beans, yellow wax beans, snap peas - OH! I've got to get my shelling peas in today! (I know, I'm slow on those.) carrots, beets and radishes.

Anyone here grown popcorn before? Do you just let it sort of dry on the stalk and then rub out the kernals? Can you microwave them to pop them?

[Toni]

All the ones I put outside died. Sigh*

[Toni]

Anyone here grown popcorn before? Do you just let it sort of dry on the stalk and then rub out the kernals? Yes
Can you microwave them to pop them? I don't know

[signseeker]

Bummer they died. I had this thought as I was watering the other day..."Can you imagine being dependent on these crops in order to eat???" :yikes:

[Earthling]

My first tomatoes were killed by frost . . . thought I had waited long enough. Now the new ones and everything else is looking good. We had a salad with lettuce from the garden yesterday - yum - organic even! Almost time to plant the second crop of corn (so it doesn't all come on at the same time).

[signseeker]

When did you plant your first tomatoes that were killed?

(I guess being slow can have some advantages! :l0 (6): )

[Earthling]

I planted them the Thursday before Mother's Day - that night there was hard freeze. Usually you are pretty safe by then. It used to be safe by May 1st - seems like the dates keep getting later when you can plant.

[signseeker]

Ah, Al Gore again. Err- wait. What's the opposite of Al Gore?

[KF7EEC]

What's the opposite of Al Gore?

Intelligence. Charm. Good looks. Using less than twice the national average of electricity. Not flying around in a private jet.

[signseeker]

Okay, update on the tomato seedlings...

The ones I planted in the garden first are doing FANTASTIC - I mean, they've lapped the store tomatoes and are going gang-busters. Not only are they bigger, but they just look way-hay better, healthier, thicker, the whole she-bang. All the varieties are doing equally well.

The ones I planted later, into containers and into another "strip" off the patio which is more shady are doing great, too. They haven't caught up to the garden ones, but as soon as they were out of their 9oz. cups, really took off and looked so much happier. :thumbup: Again, all varieties are doing equally well.

There were about a dozen plants that dh did his "hanging upside-down" experiment with and all but two died a horrible death. He also sprinkled some kind of chemical "it-was-good-enough-for-Dad's-garden" fertilizer on them and that seemed to burn them. Anyway, the two plants that are struggling beyond all odds and have blossoms, even though they're less than a foot high (or down?) were Brandywines.

I'm soooo excited for tomatoes and I plan to save tons of seeds. Yay! :w00t:

[Earthling]

I planted my second crop last weekend so hopefully I can have corn, peas, lettuce again this fall . . . hopefully! Everything seems to have come out of the damage from the bad hailstorm but it looked pretty ragged for a few weeks. :)

[signseeker]

I planted some more stuff this week ... watermelon, cantalope, cukes and corn. I know, it's probably way too late, but I just did anyway. Maybe we'll have an Indian summer.

[prairiemom]

Hopefully it's not too late because I'm doing the same--today I'm planting some root crops to fill in where nothing came up: parsnips, beets, maybe some rutabaga or turnips, maybe a row of beans.

[Toni]

Too much iron can burn plants. I have an iron supplement that claims it will not burn them. I'm not sure what other fertilizers burn plants.