"After Armageddon" discussion

[Buffie]

Everyone please pardon me if this has already been discussed, but I saw "After Armageddon" last night and I'd love to hear your opinions on smart/stupid things the people did. I did get a few ideas from the program, such as using a hot car sitting in the sun to dehydrate food. But I loved picking out the mistakes these dodos made. Such as:

1. They had water in their home for several days after the crisis began, but failed to fill bathtub, buckets, glasses, etc.

2. Of course the interstates were impassable. Sideroads offer more route possibilities, including driving through a yard if necessary.

Anyhow, if you saw it and would like to talk about what you learned or laughed about, I'd like to hear it.

[sarge712]

I came into the show "After Armageddon" when the family was already on the road and found the dead guy in the blue Durango. Ten minutes into it I was pleading for their deaths due to sheer stupidity / Darwinism :001_tt2:. When the wife shot the man in the warehouse she dropped the handgun in shock and they fled without the bad guy's weapon, etc. Sadly enough though, their overall weak pansy mindset is probably typical of the modern day liberal urbanite. Their kid was a brat as well.

I like the show "Armageddon Man" (History Channel) with former Recon Marine Rudy Reyes. It was a great show and I learned a lot. Finally there was a show with some useful survival info not commonly known. Reyes is the real deal and is featured in the book Generation Kill and HBO series of the same title about his USMC Recon unit's part in the invasion of Iraq. Reyes is hard and intense but also seems to be a good, intelligent, articulate dude. I look forward to the next episode.

[mgriffith]

I saw it and was rather pleased. Although there were lots of "boo-boos" in the film, overall it was what I would consider pretty accurate. Yeah, the family did some stupid things, and they survived only by pure luck, but I thought it presented the problem as best you could in two hours and with so many variables.

The biggest problem in an emergency like that is water. Not where to get it, but how to make it drinkable. A good portable water filter will be much more valuable that a case of Evian. In most environments, except for the desert, you can find water, but it's quality will be questionable, and you don't want to get sick as that will be very bad under those conditions.

Storing water is not a good answer because you simply can't store enough for long term survival. I have 4, 55 gal. drums of water stored in the basement for a total of 220 gals. That would be enough for myself and the wife for a little over six months if we were both on 2 quarts a day.....a very very small amount. Three months if we did the more normal 1 gal. per person per day. But if we had the children and grandchildren to worry about too, that would be enough for less then a month. I also built a roof collection system where I can gather an unlimited amount as long as it rains. One good rain will fill up all the water barrels on the property, and that will give me over 500 gals. which is renewable.

In a bug out situation, you just can't carry enough. Water is very heavy for the space it takes up, and a good filter is far more valuable.

I would never travel on any main road in a situation like that. You are just asking to get "checked out" by anyone that comes along. Here's a hint.....if you're on the road and a car comes, and stops before they get to you and sits there, they are trying to determine if you are a threat. If the car goes past you, stops, and they get out, they have already determined that they want whatever you have. This is not always true, but it seems to be so in most cases. I would travel by night if there is a good moon, and use the RR tracks as no one would be using them anymore, and no one is watching them.

Just my two cents.

Mark

[waif69]

What Channel was this on?

[Buffie]

I think it was the History Channel.

[sarge712]

Yes it was History Channel. Last week was Armageddon Week for some reason and they focused on 2012, Nostradoofus and other doom scenarios. Per the History Channel the show "After Armageddon" isnt reshowing any time soon but "Apocalypse Man" (I had it wrong on the earlier post - I had it as "Armageddon Man") with Rudy Reyes airs again on Tuesday January 19 @ 11p EST and Wednesday January 20 @ 3a EST.

[mirkwood]

Yea I came into it in the middle about where sarge did and had the same thoughts.

[signseeker]

I watched most of it and was thinking they were pretty dumb (really got annoyed at the husband in the show... guess I resent the man being more inept than the wife - sorry, guys) but then, like was stated above, figured this is probably the mindset we'll be dealing with for the most part. People just won't have any idea what to do if they haven't been thinking about it.

I had mixed feelings on the whole stealing from the warehouse thing. I thought I would've been more in your face like, We've killed your leader, we're taking what we need and leaving. But then I thought, Wow, getting shot would really slow us down and could lead to some seriously nasty medical problems... last thing we want is for someone in the group to be badly hurt. So I couldn't really decide what to do in that situation.

[signseeker]

Some other thoughts...

This statement from the show I found interesting: Children will become the most dangerous during a famine scenario. They are more violent and aggressive in trying to get food. (the movie showed a scene where a little girl came out and started shooting a rifle at the travelling family)

That's not a direct quote, but you get the jist of it. I hadn't thought of this before... are children really this way? Does anyone have experience where they've been around children in bad situations?

Also seeds. It shows the people planting seeds a year or 18 months later... back to the land, you know. Where did the seeds come from, I wonder? The times in the BOM that I recall people moving to new locations mentioned them carrying seeds with them. I suppose that leaves us with a couple options. We either can count on having a gardening cycle of a year or so in which to gather seeds. We can raid the stores if SHTF at that time of year. Or seed-saving can become part of our lives. I like the last option because I think it opens up more options. I'm all about opening up options. (I think I'll start a thread on that... I've been thinking a bit about that lately.)

Lastly... antibiotics. A small cut can turn disastrous if an infection grows out of it. What are alternative antibiotics? What can we wash wounds with?

[mgriffith]

I had mixed feelings on the whole stealing from the warehouse thing. I thought I would've been more in your face like, We've killed your leader, we're taking what we need and leaving. But then I thought, Wow, getting shot would really slow us down and could lead to some seriously nasty medical problems... last thing we want is for someone in the group to be badly hurt. So I couldn't really decide what to do in that situation.

That scene was a very dangerous situation that was treated very lightly, in my opinion. From the moment the father casually walked up to the armed gang members he was putting his life and the life of his family on the line. I could go into it a lot but I'll skip it.

But he did not know who was inside that building, and what they were armed with, so no matter how tough a guy he was, you just can't stroll up to a bunch of armed gangsters and shoot them all with one hand gun.

So I never would have confronted them in the first place. The stealing part I would have done....except I would not have gone in there unarmed, and I would have done a lot more recon before attempting to enter the building, planned a better get-a-way, etc.

Mark

[Buffie]

Hi Signseeker. There are a couple of alternatives to antibiotics, but they're not as good. I've had minor finger infections that responded well to being soaked in hot salt water for several hours. Another possibility is to treat the infected area with sugar. This was apparently and old Arab trick (don't knock it; the Arabs were light years ahead of the West in medicine during the Dark Ages). There was an article about this on Survivalblog. Finally, there's the possibility of using animal antibiotics. Most medication for animals is exactly like that given to humans; i.e., penicillin for cows is just like penicillin for humans. There's an article about that on Survivalblog, also. If the man's hand actually became gangrenous, which was unclear in the movie, another possibility would be to use maggots. Don't gross out; they're actually used in hospitals sometimes because they eat dead flesh but not living flesh.

Sorry this post inadvertently turned a little gross. I hope you weren't planning to eat lunch anytime soon.

[mgriffith]

This statement from the show I found interesting: Children will become the most dangerous during a famine scenario.


I have never experienced children behaving as anything other than children. I don't know where they got that information from, but it may be true and I just have not seen it. It may be easier for children to loose the veneer of civilization just they are not as well trained as adults.



Also seeds. It shows the people planting seeds a year or 18 months later... back to the land, you know. Where did the seeds come from, I wonder?


Seeds from a store will still germinate at a reduced rate even for a couple years. But then they are nearly all hybrid seeds and would not be any good for future crops. But then I would guess some sort of seed selection and cross-pollination process could produce viable non-hybrid seeds in a few years even from originally hybrid seeds.

Another thing to consider, your year's supply of food storage is supposed to feed you until the next crops. If you wait for your food to run out before starting to plant again, you will starve to death before anything grows.



Lastly... antibiotics. A small cut can turn disastrous if an infection grows out of it. What are alternative antibiotics? What can we wash wounds with?

He could have done several things....soaking in salts to draw out the infection, lancing and soaking in alcohol, poultices, and so on. A good book to have is one titled "Where There Is No Doctor". I have a copy in my field first aid kit and it has loads of information on such things.

Mark

[signseeker]

I gashed my finger when I slammed into the fence the other day. I forgot to wash it out or anything and it started getting infected. I'll do an experiment with it, so stay tuned! :w00t: (I won't use any "medicine.")

[sunsinger]

I gashed my finger when I slammed into the fence the other day. I forgot to wash it out or anything and it started getting infected. I'll do an experiment with it, so stay tuned! :w00t: (I won't use any "medicine.")
Meaning you won't treat the infection? Really now...

[Dr.Jride]

I gashed my finger when I slammed into the fence the other day. I forgot to wash it out or anything and it started getting infected. I'll do an experiment with it, so stay tuned! :w00t: (I won't use any "medicine.")

:d0 (59):

[signseeker]

Jeez, guys. I'm offering to be the guinea pig here. For the good of the collective, I'm putting my neck on the line. How much love is THAT?

I'll soak it in salt water or something... we'll just see how bad it gets first. :) I mean, what better time to experiment than when I know I have modern medicine to fall back on?

[Earthling]

No greater love hath a man than he offer his life for the welfare of others . . . :wink5:

[Noahs ARK]

I gashed my finger when I slammed into the fence the other day. I forgot to wash it out or anything and it started getting infected. I'll do an experiment with it, so stay tuned! :w00t: (I won't use any "medicine.")

I just love those experiments, yaknow! :l0 (43):

[ghostcat]

Try using raw honey, it has antibacterial properties above and beyond the effects of sugar. It's supposed to be very effective.................of course, if your finger falls off, don't blame me!:laugh:

[mirkwood]

No greater love hath a man than he offer his life for the welfare of others . . . :wink5:



...and then there is common sense. Oh wait, this is signseeker we are talking about....nevermind.:biggrin5:

[arbilad]

Try using raw honey, it has antibacterial properties above and beyond the effects of sugar. It's supposed to be very effective.................of course, if your finger falls off, don't blame me!:laugh:

My younger son has a bad cough right now, and the doctor prescribed honey and water to help fight it. Honey is good stuff.

[signseeker]

Well, folks. This is not good.

I woke up this morning and the swelling is 70% gone and the pain is 80% gone. I don't think I'll have to do anything. :nosmile2: My immune system is too dang powerful.

I didn't know that about the honey, though. Thanks!

[mgriffith]

Jeez, guys. I'm offering to be the guinea pig here. For the good of the collective, I'm putting my neck on the line. How much love is THAT?

I'll soak it in salt water or something... we'll just see how bad it gets first. :) I mean, what better time to experiment than when I know I have modern medicine to fall back on?

Here's what you do.....wait until little red lines start moving up your hand from the infection site. That means blood poisoning is starting to develop. You can still treat it without medications, but your chances of living just dropped somewhat, depending on if there is a major vein involved.

Really, this is a bad sign. If you ever get to this point you better do something soon or start giving your stuff away. In the field, you always want to treat even a small cut as soon as possible, even if it is just washing with soap and water. This is an important lesson for people to learn in bad times when there is no doctor or antibiotics.

If you die, can I have your avatar? :l0 (7):

Mark

[mgriffith]

Here's a good picture. Sorry if it affects anyone's breakfast.

[signseeker]

I'd heard about the lines moving out from the site... never seen a photo of it, though. Yeeks. Of course I'd be more careful if we were in a SHTF scenario... I can type and play the piano and not notice anything with it now.

Anyone else have an injury that we can experiment on? :d0 (67):

[Noahs ARK]

I'd heard about the lines moving out from the site... never seen a photo of it, though. Yeeks. Of course I'd be more careful if we were in a SHTF scenario... I can type and play the piano and not notice anything with it now.

Anyone else have an injury that we can experiment on? :d0 (67):

Don't you worry about that little red line running from the infection site.

Since this is an experiment, we'll just amputate and then post about your Pain Tolerance on the other thread. :l0 (20):

[signseeker]

Okay, I get it. You guys resent me cuz I'll be one of the last survivors. What do you want me to do? There can be only one...

[KF7EEC]

"Where There Is No Doctor"

This is one of those books I've had on my list of things to buy for a while now. For any not fimilar, you can read it all online (PDFs) and/or purchase a bound copy at http://www.hesperian.org/publications_download_wtnd.php and http://www.hesperian.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=HB&Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=ENG

[mgriffith]

Cool! Thanks!

Also, "Where There is no Dentist"

http://www.hesperian.org/publications_download_dentist.php

[Buffie]

I watched part of the program again today and picked up a bad mistake. While the family was hunkered down and still had electricity, they didn't bother to eat everything in their freezer/refrigerator. They should have known the electricity would go, and eating those perishables while holding onto canned/dried/rice etc. would have been the wise thing to do.

[lurker]

Just watched today. Why would a family walk down the middle of a BLACK asphalt road, in the hot daytime, in the middle of the desert? And they're short of water? Gimme a break. Night treks, off-road, lower temps, better security.

[DMGNUT]

I agree with GhostCat on the honey over the sugar.
Also do a search for Colloidal Silver. Some "na-sayers" out there in regards to the stuff, but my family uses it regularly with great success. One of the many good things about this stuff, is it's practically free to make... about $2 a gallon, and can be used topically or taken internally as well (like if you feel a sore throat coming on, etc).
Sign, I'm glad your finger is already improving on it's own... I really didn't want to hear about any amputation...

[signseeker]

Thank you, Nut. You're on the nice list. I can't even remember what finger it was. :blink:

[JayE]

Thank you, Nut. You're on the nice list. :blink:

You have lists? Which one is Mirk on?

[phylm]

My folks always used a hot ground flaxseed poultice--heated the mash in water, put it on a cloth and applied to the infection. It cured a basketball-playing knee floor burn for me that had infected to the point of streaks starting up and down my leg. This was before the day of antibiotics. I had neglected to mention the injury to my mother until I nearly fainted at the kitchen table one night. My parents were understandably upset with me.

Also, Dad's cure-all disinfectant was turpentine! Everybody winced when he poured it into a gash on my leg that I got when a cousin let an old shovel get away from him in the middle of a mud fight. But it worked. And it DOESN'T sting at all. I asked him finally, shortly before his death, where he ever got the notion of using turpentine, and he said "Your great-grandfather." (His adored Grandpa Smith, a twice wounded Civil war veteran.) Turpentine was used in the south during the Civil War, and the Blues picked up on it. Probably saved a lot of lives.

[mirkwood]

You have lists? Which one is Mirk on?


The, Hide The Horse list.:yesnod:

[signseeker]

Oh, look... here comes Mirky. He's all tired from all that hand-plowing all day. He's bent over like an old man and he's got a nasty sunburn on his head (although the shave is a lot longer since we haven't had power for a year now). He's rubbing his blisters, poor guy. His skinny cat is following him, hoping he throws up again...

Meanwhile, Sign is sitting in the shade sipping some pine needle tea and her field is all plowed and ready to plant. And the horses? Foraging on food humans can't digest at an undisclosed location, being protected by the very Power of God...

[LEVE]

Foraging on food humans can't digestSign, get it right... they're not foraging... they're fertilizing... Ya gotta think positive.

[mgriffith]

I'll have to admit that in a survival situation, cats don't have much use. Unless you will love your cat for catching a mouse once in a while and leaving the headless carcass for you to feed on. Of course, you could eat the cat, but I'm pretty sure I've had cat before and it's not very good.

With a horse, you can work it until it won't work anymore, and then eat it. A much better idea. :d0 (12):

[signseeker]

Yo, feudal lord, how 'bout I work you 'till you won't work anymore, HUH? :sneaky2:

[mirkwood]

Oh, look... here comes Mirky. He's all tired from all that hand-plowing all day. He's bent over like an old man and he's got a nasty sunburn on his head (although the shave is a lot longer since we haven't had power for a year now). He's rubbing his blisters, poor guy. His skinny cat is following him, hoping he throws up again...

Meanwhile, Sign is sitting in the shade sipping some pine needle tea and her field is all plowed and ready to plant. And the horses? Foraging on food humans can't digest at an undisclosed location, being protected by the very Power of God...


I have no plans of visiting West Magna to see your garden.:out:

[arbilad]

Sign, you have to be able to live through plowing time. The cats will kill the mice and rats that are carriers of disease. Right now that doesn't seem like much, but believe me, the rodents will be flocking to any food source in a collapse situation.

[signseeker]

I have no plans of visiting West Magna to see your garden.:out:

Ah, but the return of Lake Bonneville will give you no choice. Unless you move east, of course. But then again, east would put you closer to those spoiled types who can't do much for themselves... and a higher population density than I care to deal with... But hey, plan away dude. :thumbup1:

[signseeker]

Sign, you have to be able to live through plowing time. The cats will kill the mice and rats that are carriers of disease. Right now that doesn't seem like much, but believe me, the rodents will be flocking to any food source in a collapse situation.

You know, I was watching Life After People the other day (my new almost favorite show) and it showed a supermarket and how it would deteriorate once it was abandoned. Those rats and mice move in all over the place. :mad (2): If you had to relocate, though, I see the cats hitting the road - not staying with their people like dogs would.

[arbilad]

Dogs are the darkside. They are Satan's plan. You see, cats love you or not based on what you do. You can't force them to love you. Whereas dogs are like Satan's plan - just as he said that everyone would return, dogs don't care what you do, they show affection anyway. There is no free will involved. Since it's not something that you earned it is of no value.
:-)

[signseeker]

Dogs would die for you. Greater love hath no man than this. In fact, you could compare them to Christ Himself on that point. A cat would never defend you. He deserts you in your hour of need, just like Satan. Cats are Satan. They trick you into thinking you have some kind of "covenant" but it's really one-sided, an "oath." An oath to Satan.

[mirkwood]

Dogs go feral, join into packs and then eat people.

[Noahs ARK]

The cats will kill the mice and rats that are carriers of disease. Right now that doesn't seem like much, but believe me, the rodents will be flocking to any food source in a collapse situation.

With my luck the cats will kill the mice and rats that have rabies. Since all the vet offices will be closed, they won't be up-to-date on their shots and then they'll bite me.

I can see it's just gonna be one big free-for-all here. :smash:

[JayE]

Cats are stupid.

[mirkwood]

You're just a cowboy mindless drone clone.

[DMGNUT]

I love this thread.

This is my best impression of the parent waiting for the kids to stop misbehaving... :toetap05:

:l0 (48)::l0 (48)::l0 (48):

[ghostcat]

Cats are stupid.

Obviously you have never been around any of the cats that Have graced my life!!

[ghostcat]

Ah, but the return of Lake Bonneville will give you no choice. Unless you move east, of course. But then again, east would put you closer to those spoiled types who can't do much for themselves... and a higher population density than I care to deal with... But hey, plan away dude. :thumbup1:
I hate to break this to you Sign, but if lake Bonneville returns Magna would be under water as well!:001_rolleyes:

[thomasusa]

You should let your dog lick your wounds.
It is true that dog?s saliva helps wounds to heal.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_dogs_lick_humans_wounds

It would be a mistake to let a cat lick your wounds.
They are just getting a first taste?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1922/will-cats-eat-their-owners

You are your cat?s food storage!

[mirkwood]

I know where you live and the fact that two cats reside in your home.:toetap05:

[DMGNUT]

Just finished watching all the After Armageddon episodes.

At one point or another, each member of that family needed to be beat down with a bat. Ultimately, they each had their own very brief moments to shine. But in the end, it was only sheer dumb luck which allowed them to survive.

[DMGNUT]

Having said the above, I did really enjoy the show, and it did get you to thinking.

[LoudmouthMormon]

I figured I had tasted the core of Zion's Camp message board light-hearted back-and-forthery in the thread where they discussed whether it was necessary to paint a Glock white for proper carrying in the temple.

Here on GLO, I figure the core is summed up in this thread, with this comment:

You are your cat?s food storage!

Good job Thomas! And with only 21 posts to your name!

LM

[signseeker]

I hate to break this to you Sign, but if lake Bonneville returns Magna would be under water as well!:001_rolleyes:

Not West Magna, dude. :d0 (58):

[mirkwood]

:l0 (46):

[signseeker]

And unless you live up Kolob Canyon, ghostie, you'd better watch it.

[ghostcat]

Not West Magna, dude. :d0 (58):
Oh, OK, you'll only be under about 700 feet of water instead of 800!!:l0 (59):

[ghostcat]

And unless you live up Kolob Canyon, ghostie, you'd better watch it.
Hey, my house is only 200 feet or so below the high water mark, I'm living in high style by your standards!:lol:

[signseeker]

I'm above 5,000 feet for your information. So I'm safe. :prrr:

[sunsinger]

Dogs would die for you. Greater love hath no man than this. In fact, you could compare them to Christ Himself on that point. A cat would never defend you. He deserts you in your hour of need, just like Satan. Cats are Satan. They trick you into thinking you have some kind of "covenant" but it's really one-sided, an "oath." An oath to Satan.

Actually cats can be very protective.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2407112/let_go_of_her_protective_cat/

Also the purring and contact comfort of pets including cats can have real medical benefits.

[Earthling]

I'm above 5,000 feet for your information. So I'm safe. :prrr:

I am right below the water mark at about 5000 feet so I'm safe too. :thumbsup: Wait - except for the earthquake fault I can see out my back window. :shocked:

[ghostcat]

I'm above 5,000 feet for your information. So I'm safe. :prrr:

You'd better be above 5200 feet then, otherwise you are going to need scuba gear to tend your garden. According to my topographic maps you would be needing to live on or near the mountain tops there around Magna. Further, since google satellite pictures don't show any housing in those areas. The only way I could see you reaching 5000 feet in any part of Magna is for you to have piled a whole bunch of something up to build on. I have my own ideas as to what that something would be with you raising horses and all!:l0 (44):

[ghostcat]

I am right below the water mark at about 5000 feet so I'm safe too. :thumbsup: Wait - except for the earthquake fault I can see out my back window. :shocked: Historic levels for lake Bonneville are at the 5200 foot mark so your probably going to need waders just like the rest of us.:l0 (20):

[Earthling]

I might need waders but that is better than scuba gear. :l0 (46):

[mirkwood]

Hey ghost do you even know where West Magna is located? :biggrin5:

[ghostcat]

Hey ghost do you even know where West Magna is located? :biggrin5:
Based on your question I must not. I first figured it must be near Magna but when I searched for West Magna I drew a blank so that left me thinking it was part of Magna proper. So where is it then if not there?:confused5:

[signseeker]

Ghost- Go West, young man! (further... the other side of the mountain, the other side of the mountain...)

[signseeker]

Also the purring and contact comfort of pets including cats can have real medical benefits.

I've never met a therapy cat in my life. :l0 (40): Horses? Yes. Dogs? Yes.

[hiccups]

I've never met a therapy cat in my life. :l0 (40): Horses? Yes. Dogs? Yes.
http://www.deltasociety.org/Page.aspx?pid=267#Involved
What animals are involved as Pet Partners?

Delta Society registers dogs and cats as well as other domesticated animals such as rabbits, goats, horses, miniature pigs, birds etc.

[mirkwood]

"West Magna" is the term several of us came up with while we worked Magna for a city west of Magna. I'm not sure why we came up with that term, but we used it quite a bit. Now I usually call it the town with the meat factory.

[signseeker]

What meat factory? :blink:

[mirkwood]

Signseeker's Meat Emporium.

[signseeker]

Ha. Ha.

There's a cat that's trying to set up shop in my haystack. :frown2:

Oh, and the cabin cat was back this weekend. She got 2 more cans of tuna. What's the matter with me?! :banghead:

[mirkwood]

:coool:

[Burn]

I see that this thread is almost 7 years old but I must get in on this, late though I am. In the end I like to subscribe to the policies of PETA... People Eating Tasty Animals
Seriously though, if you still have pets with you they may become dinner. Don't discount rats as a source for protein.
Ok, maybe not seriously...

[Burn]

Here I am again. It's now 5 additional years later and we're living the pandemic. It's not quite like the movie though and I have my opinions about this "plandemic" that I will not share here. The movie is good to learn some things from, but mostly it was off the mark in many ways. Things would have to degrade a lot more than they did in 2020 to get like the movie. The disease would have to be much more aggressive than we experienced for society to break down. Is it possible? You bet! But our real world pandemic taught me a lot of things that I will use if we ever have a much worse one.