Be Careful with that Bunker!

[mgriffith]

http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/blotter/entries/2010/05/11/east_austin_home_discovered_wi.html

So all they found were some empty drums, inert grenades, and some weapons....all legally owned. And they took the poor Vietnam Vet and turned him over to protected services because he was obviously not able to care for himself. What a ignorant excuse to dispense "social justice".

Beware!

/\/\ark

[hiccups]

Couple things:

I found another article that says the gentleman is now living with family. (He was probably turned over to APS until family willing/able to take him could be located.) http://www.statesman.com/news/local/multilevel-bunker-found-under-east-austin-home-683270.html

Not every story like this is a conspiracy to dispense social justice. And not all the details end up in the news story. From all accounts, the structural integrity of the house is in serious question. I suspect the guy is effected by some sort of mental illness or dementia. But either way, it's pretty much SOP within cities to not let people live in unsound buildings. Also, it was found that the excavation actually went under a neighbor's property as well. So an argument for just leaving him alone to do as he willl, because he's not dangerous to anyone else is not going to hold water.

As someone with an elderly, mentally ill parent who lives a 20 hour drive away, I know that APS might someday by my best or only option if conditions deteriorate enough and my mother is very uncooperative... which is a very real possibilty.

[mgriffith]

Not every story like this is a conspiracy to dispense social justice. And not all the details end up in the news story. From all accounts, the structural integrity of the house is in serious question. I suspect the guy is effected by some sort of mental illness or dementia. But either way, it's pretty much SOP within cities to not let people live in unsound buildings.

While I agree with your statement that we don't get all the facts from a news story, I think the actions of the authorities here still deprived a person of their rights, even if they cloaked it in the guise of "helping" the poor, unstable man.

Even though I have a degree in Psychology and masters work in the same field, I would never presume to know this man's mental state from reading an article about him. I'm not criticizing you, I'm talking about myself, and without interviewing him directly, none of us can know this.

However, let's just say he is mentally competent and not a danger to himself or others. The picture here then is a government that disapproves of his methods, whether it is safe or not. Why mention the weapons or inert hand grenades if there is no attempt to paint this poor guy as a nut? If they found advanced calculus books in his bunker, would that have been mentioned? Or a violin, or guitar? What if they had mentioned 2 tons of food stored there?

The scene presented by the media story may be completely devoid of anything other than innuendo, but then again it may not. Let's say he was mildly paranoiac. There are tens of thousands of them working jobs, raising families, etc. The only difference there is they didn't choose to dig a bunker under their home. It is his right to do that to his property if he wants too. And the government does not have a policy of letting people live in sub-standard housing. I can go into the inner-city of any metro area in the country and find thousands of sub-standard living quarters and no one says boo about it.

This situation reeks so much like the state taking away all the children of the LDS splinter group because they might be abused someday in the future...or basically for a think crime. The state is becoming more and more deeply involved with our lives, and that is the danger. I read recently that the government wants to have more control over food marketing so the Washington elites can provide better more nutritious food for the children. How far does that go before they are taking the kids because you served them McDonald's for lunch?

Government intrusion is the problem and danger I was presenting here.

/\/\ark

[hiccups]

However, let's just say he is mentally competent and not a danger to himself or others. The picture here then is a government that disapproves of his methods, whether it is safe or not. Why mention the weapons or inert hand grenades if there is no attempt to paint this poor guy as a nut?


I believe the weapons and grenades were mentioned as being the justification for the search warrant. The building code officers saw those items when the homeowner was willingly showing them his modifications.


The scene presented by the media story may be completely devoid of anything other than innuendo, but then again it may not. Let's say he was mildly paranoiac. There are tens of thousands of them working jobs, raising families, etc. The only difference there is they didn't choose to dig a bunker under their home. It is his right to do that to his property if he wants too. And the government does not have a policy of letting people live in sub-standard housing. I can go into the inner-city of any metro area in the country and find thousands of sub-standard living quarters and no one says boo about it.
Cities have building codes. Just because they may not be enforced in some areas, doesn't mean they aren't regularly in other areas. If we were to build on our house without permits and got caught (say we had neighbors complain like in this situation) we could get in big doo doo. If our modifications made our house structurally unsound it would get condemned. I want to understand your perspective. Are you arguing against city codes?

Also, the article does state that his excavation encroached into one of the neighbor's property. That's obviously not a right, city codes or no.

What exact rights of the homeowner were violated in your view?

(You mentioned he has a right to dig a bunker and I asked about that, but were there other rights you're thinking of as well?)

[hiccups]

Even though I have a degree in Psychology and masters work in the same field, I would never presume to know this man's mental state from reading an article about him. I'm not criticizing you, I'm talking about myself, and without interviewing him directly, none of us can know this.


I'm just an armchair Psychologist and as such I don't have to keep up any guise of professionalism. I can speculate and it is just that. I was stating it as a possiblity, but I didn't make it the basis for my position.

(I mentioned my mother's situation simply to tie in that I for one am glad that APS exists and that I don't see the fact that our bunker-building homeowner was sent to APS as a bad thing automatically.)

[WolfBrother]

You have to understand on thing first and foremost, this is in the People's Republik of Austin (PRA). I spell Republik this way specifically to indicate political leaning.

Austin, Texas is the ONLY large city in Texas that Bill Clinton carried in either election. The majority of presidential votes in Austin for both of his elections were for him.

It is a bastion of liberalism in Texas.

It is where my job is.

When I can retire, it WILL NOT BE where I will be.

Until one of the branches of his excavations that went under his neighbors property caved in, causing a hole in the neighbors property he more or less was under the PRA notice point. ONCE a neighbor complained, that started the visits, inspections etc.

While I personally think SWAT was a bit much, having a bomb squad tech check to make sure the dummy grenades were in fact dummies is more or less procedure.

From what I've been told, Austin is as close to the California mindset as any city NOT IN California can be.

[LEVE]

A repost - Do it right!

http://www.mypnw.us/Stuff/Archives/NukeHouse/nukeho22.jpg (http://www.mypnw.us/Stuff/Interesting/Interesting.nukehome.aspx)

[Baconator]

I've always been leery of underground bunkers. I don't like the idea of going into something that can be turned into a tomb by a couple of tack welds and some Saran Wrap.

[WolfBrother]

I've always been leery of underground bunkers. I don't like the idea of going into something that can be turned into a tomb by a couple of tack welds and some Saran Wrap.

That's why when you build it you follow PPPPPPP and build in an escape way.

Proper Prior Planning Prevents P Poor Performance.