MySolarBackup

[KF7EEC]

What do you guys think of this?
http://www.mysolarbackup.com/

I feel like a used car salesman wrote it, but seems interesting.

[ktcottle]

It appears convenient....but I would never buy it. Some of the design just doesn't seem right to me. I ran some electricity from my first house on a solar panel. I had DC lighting all through the house (more efficient than changing it to AC), plus ran a fridge/freezer in the garage...plus I could run my furnace fan during an emergency for a few hours a day if needed. It wasn't a big system....but anytime you change DC to AC...you have a significant loss. To go from 12 v to 120 volts...you have a 1 to 10 ratio (simiply stating) - that has to come from your battery and if your panel can't handle that draw/ratio...it won't do you any good for longevity. Something just doesn't feel right about it, but I only spent 5 minutes looking at the specs.... and got turned off.

maybe someone else can help?

I purchased (instead of a solar kit) a portable wind power generator and a bicycle power generator. One outputs 15 amps and the other will hit about 20 amps...and it was a lot cheaper than solar. If the wind isn't blowing...then I'll peddle or have the kids peddle...regardless, 15 amps will be plenty in an emergency (I have all DC powered devices - heaters, radio's, chargers, etc)...running from a few golf cart batteries...I'm just not pleased with solar anymore unless it was a permanent fixture.

My buddies house is completely off the grid running all solar (200 amp service)...that's cool but very expensive.

[Justme]

Can you tell me more about your two generators and where you got them? Also about your DC powered devices

[BackBlast]

It appears convenient....but I would never buy it. Some of the design just doesn't seem right to me. I ran some electricity from my first house on a solar panel. I had DC lighting all through the house (more efficient than changing it to AC), plus ran a fridge/freezer in the garage...plus I could run my furnace fan during an emergency for a few hours a day if needed. It wasn't a big system....but anytime you change DC to AC...you have a significant loss. To go from 12 v to 120 volts...you have a 1 to 10 ratio (simiply stating) - that has to come from your battery and if your panel can't handle that draw/ratio...it won't do you any good for longevity. Something just doesn't feel right about it, but I only spent 5 minutes looking at the specs.... and got turned off.

maybe someone else can help?

I'm not sure of your electrical background, but many argue that AC is more efficient than DC because of cable losses. You need 1/10th of the resistance (IE much larger cables) to run 12v direct with the same line losses. Of course, you always have loss in a conversion, up or down. But if you're running any reasonable length runs at all I think you'll find AC isn't bad at all.

You have to run the actual math for line length, load size, and inverter losses if you want a clear picture. But I believe AC has a compelling case - especially for a house that is already built and wired. Now, if you have 12v appliances you're trying to run already and you have the means to run lines, I think staying at 12 has a case for those with that inclination.


I purchased (instead of a solar kit) a portable wind power generator and a bicycle power generator. One outputs 15 amps and the other will hit about 20 amps...and it was a lot cheaper than solar. If the wind isn't blowing...then I'll peddle or have the kids peddle...regardless, 15 amps will be plenty in an emergency (I have all DC powered devices - heaters, radio's, chargers, etc)...running from a few golf cart batteries...I'm just not pleased with solar anymore unless it was a permanent fixture. I've looked at wind power. I've run the numbers, and this year with the wind going crazy so often I keep thinking I should be utilizing it in some fashion. But realistically, I haven't found a small wattage wind generator I'm willing to put money down for. Instead of industrial quality (what you really need for this kind of unit) you get consumer quality throw-away mentality kind of construction that are simply not well tested. In other words, they don't look like they will last. This isn't new tech, you should be able to go out and find a model that's been fielded the last 20-30 years and has a solid reputation but there are no such units that I've been able to find. I only seem to find that in the really really large ones intended for wind farms. Even then, they are not maintenance free and there are costs you'll hit much sooner down the road than solar. I think wind power is deceptively expensive.


My buddies house is completely off the grid running all solar (200 amp service)...that's cool but very expensive.Watts is a better measure than amps. I have no idea what you're talking about with 200 amps. Could well be a 1.2v system running 240 watts, which will NOT run much of my house :devil:

The most reasonable guess would be 200A@12v or a 2400-2600 watt system. That's a pretty good size and would probably run my appliances, though not the stove and dryer at the same time, heh.

[BackBlast]

What do you guys think of this?
http://www.mysolarbackup.com/

I feel like a used car salesman wrote it, but seems interesting.

Now that I've had some time to look at the website.. I think it's expensive for what you get. It's basically a charge controller/battery/inverter combo box that is paired with a solar panel and an extension cord. The off the shelf prices for the pair is probably around half what they are charging, maybe even less for someone who isn't afraid of the smallest little DIY.

Brandon

[ktcottle]

Watts is a better measure than amps. I have no idea what you're talking about with 200 amps. Could well be a 1.2v system running 240 watts, which will NOT run much of my house :devil:

The most reasonable guess would be 200A@12v or a 2400-2600 watt system. That's a pretty good size and would probably run my appliances, though not the stove and dryer at the same time, heh.

200 amp service at 120volts. This is "WATT" :l0 (51): is being delivered to his house. I have no idea what his panels are putting out - can't remember because he just added to it, but they can easily handle the complete load. His house is well over 5000 square feet with all appliances able to operate at the same time. In fact, he has so much extra power, they are building a huge 7 car garage with 4 bedrooms on the top of it running air/heat as needed. This house is in the middle of no where - and has a well, solar and now wind power, green house, etc.. It's completely self sufficient and well into the millions of dollars.

Also, you are right - it is proven that AC is way more efficient than DC especially because of line loss. When I wired my house up with DC lighting/sloar I did have to use the "chart" to calculate the gauge of wire for the current draw/distance I had to go. What i meant about the 1 to 10 ratio for the current requirements when going from DC to AC is best described below.

A full-sized refrigerator draws about 2 Amps at 120 Volts AC. By multiplying 2 Amps x 120 Volts, you find out the refrigerator
uses 240 Watts. The batteries will need to deliver 20 Amps to run the refrigerator (240 Watts/12 Volts = 20 Amps). A 200 watt panel can easily run $600 dollars or more plus you have to buy the controller. The Air X wind generator (for example only) can output 400 watts and costs about the same money and it includes a built in charge controller. The bike powered generator I bought HERE (http://www.windstreampower.com/Bike_Power_Generator.php) will output an average of 10amps to 16amps based upon the operator... (you can always peddle away inside your house and generate power - but others may see a solar panel/wind power/gas generator outside and take it from you)

I am in no way an expert with Solar...But I did spend a few years setting up my panels/wiring my house - plus a few others that were 5000 square feet and bigger. There are others that know a ton more than me and will probably correct a few mistakes of mine...but regardless - I'm just not impressed with Solar to be used as portable emergency power. A Decent panel is pretty large and fragile and peak output of the panel (from my experience) is just a few hours a day, unless you keep re-adjusting the angle of your panel. Downfall to wind power is that you always need wind :)...But it breaks down easily into a very small box...But I also followed up with the bike powered generator as well to fill in when I don't have wind (see HERE (http://www.windstreampower.com/Bike_Power_Generator.php).)...and most of everything I have in my storage is DC powered...which works out well for what I have designed for my emergency needs.

[ktcottle]

Now that I've had some time to look at the website.. I think it's expensive for what you get. It's basically a charge controller/battery/inverter combo box that is paired with a solar panel and an extension cord. The off the shelf prices for the pair is probably around half what they are charging, maybe even less for someone who isn't afraid of the smallest little DIY.

Brandon

I agree with you - i was turned off as well for that price...for what it offered.

[KF7EEC]

I agree with you - i was turned off as well for that price...for what it offered.

That was part of my concern, which is why I posted it here. I think solar is very interesting. I'd like to learn more about it, but just haven't spent the time yet.

I'd like to get a gird tie system with battery backup. My understanding is the battery is the most expensive part and so I'd like to slowly add batteries and panels. In Vegas we have plenty of sun...

[BackBlast]

200 amp service at 120volts. This is "WATT" :l0 (51): is being delivered to his house.

That is one BIG inverter. 24k watts.



I am in no way an expert with Solar...But I did spend a few years setting up my panels/wiring my house - plus a few others that were 5000 square feet and bigger. There are others that know a ton more than me and will probably correct a few mistakes of mine...but regardless - I'm just not impressed with Solar to be used as portable emergency power.There are some panels that are made with acrylic instead of glass and are a good deal more durable for portable power. Interesting you mention durability and yet chose wind, I find that to be ironic :D


A Decent panel is pretty large and fragile and peak output of the panel (from my experience) is just a few hours a dayWhich is much more consistent than wind, and there are no moving parts. Peak power only occurs at very very specific wind speeds too, lower or higher and you get less output. You don't get anything until wind speeds start approaching 10-12 mph, which is pretty healthy wind. Depending on your generator design...


But it breaks down easily into a very small box...But I also followed up with the bike powered generator as well to fill in when I don't have wind (see HERE (http://www.windstreampower.com/Bike_Power_Generator.php).)...and most of everything I have in my storage is DC powered...which works out well for what I have designed for my emergency needs.You should link which wind generator you went with, I'm always open to looking at another option. Another datasheet to look at would be interesting.

[ktcottle]

That was part of my concern, which is why I posted it here. I think solar is very interesting. I'd like to learn more about it, but just haven't spent the time yet.

I'd like to get a gird tie system with battery backup. My understanding is the battery is the most expensive part and so I'd like to slowly add batteries and panels. In Vegas we have plenty of sun...

Yeah- that would be great... I'm in the same boat with the sun (living in St. George). If I was planning to stay in the same house FOREVER, I would spend the money to do that...but the initial setup is expensive. It's too bad that Vegas/St. George etc do not integrate solar panels/troughs as part of the house. That would help a lot with the power demands...especially with the huge air conditioning bills here...GEEZ!!!!

[ktcottle]

That is one BIG inverter. 24k watts.

He has a few inverters - not just one :)...


There are some panels that are made with acrylic instead of glass and are a good deal more durable for portable power. Interesting you mention durability and yet chose wind, I find that to be ironic :D

You're right - but I considered durability in transport - once setup, panels are much more durable than a wind generator. Thanks for the info on the acrylic.


Which is much more consistent than wind, and there are no moving parts. Peak power only occurs at very very specific wind speeds too, lower or higher and you get less output. You don't get anything until wind speeds start approaching 10-12 mph, which is pretty healthy wind. Depending on your generator design...

One of the generators I chose is the airbreeze, LINK (http://airbreeze.com/index.php?q=land/product-info) It can handle wind speeds up to 110mph. Says rated output power at 28mph is 160 watts although the sales rep says that is rated very low to what people are actually getting. It kicks on at 6mph
Monthly Energy Production 38 kWh/mo at 12 mph (5.4 m/s)


You should link which wind generator you went with, I'm always open to looking at another option. Another datasheet to look at would be interesting.

Link is listed above... I have heard very good reviews about these generators, although I don't plan on using it more than a few years..so reliability surpasses the 3 year warranty. I did purchase a very strong telescoping flag pole in which I mounted my wind generator on the top. The flag pole is inserted into a portable base and everything fits into a small package and is easily stored and transported. For something more permanent requiring many years of use, you are right...I would get something better, but this will suffice for portable emergency power lasting a few years of needed.

[KF7EEC]

Yeah- that would be great... I'm in the same boat with the sun (living in St. George). If I was planning to stay in the same house FOREVER, I would spend the money to do that...but the initial setup is expensive. It's too bad that Vegas/St. George etc do not integrate solar panels/troughs as part of the house. That would help a lot with the power demands...especially with the huge air conditioning bills here...GEEZ!!!!

I hear every few months that someone is "just about" to come out with an inexpensive solar roof tiles. That sure would be nice.

[BackBlast]

You're right - but I considered durability in transport - once setup, panels are much more durable than a wind generator. Thanks for the info on the acrylic.

Even then, I'm not sure it's that much better. Unless you treat your stuff like UPS in a bad mood on a holiday weekend.


One of the generators I chose is the airbreeze, LINK (http://airbreeze.com/index.php?q=land/product-info) It can handle wind speeds up to 110mph. Says rated output power at 28mph is 160 watts although the sales rep says that is rated very low to what people are actually getting. It kicks on at 6mph
Monthly Energy Production 38 kWh/mo at 12 mph (5.4 m/s) Yes... "handle" without self destructing. Probably for limited periods of time.

That model looks like an update of the Sunforce 44444, which I have investigated. Both are apparently from "southwest windpower" selling under different brand names or maybe southwest is just an OEM.

This is what the power vs windspeed looked like for the old one based on the datasheet. (see attached graph) As you can see, it is really really bad power until you hit 10-12 mph. It may well spin and give you a token watt below that, but not much more. Once you pass it's "optimal" point, you get throttled back into mediocrity and I don't think higher speeds are recommended at all. As you can see, the slopes are rather sharp and the optimal range is quite narrow.

The Amazon reviews (http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-44444-12-Volt-400-Watt-Generator/dp/B000C1Z2VE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1282444428&sr=8-2) for the older model are disappointing to me really. I don't know much about the refresh in the model, it looks identical still but they downgraded the rating and are charging more from the little time I put into looking. Maybe that improved the quality but the specs are so eerily similar...

I hope it works well for you, some people seem to get what they want/need out of them.

[ktcottle]

Backblast, you seem to know a lot about wind power generators.

I agree with you on the graph you provided...but that is for the AIR X. I purchased the Air breeze which is supposed to provide significantly more power at lower wind speeds than the air x, which is the main reason I purchased the Air Breeze as I don't care much about the high wind speeds as much as I do about the lower wind speeds...not a lot of wind where i'm going and the air breeze seemed to be the best find at the lower speeds (see attached graph for the air breeze). I did read a lot of bad reviews about the AIR X and I was definitely not happy with the reliability, using blades to prevent damage at excessive wind speeds, and the wind response at the lower end of the scale.

The airbreeze is too new to have any reviews, so I hope their new design pulls through as I put my money into it. I also like the response from the attached graph and the new microprocessor controls. Well, I bought it, and so I hope it works out as advertised.

Thanks for all your input -

[BackBlast]

The airbreeze is too new to have any reviews, so I hope their new design pulls through as I put my money into it. I also like the response from the attached graph and the new microprocessor controls. Well, I bought it, and so I hope it works out as advertised.

me too :-) I'm glad to hear it's definitely an improvement.

That newer graph does look much improved for lower wind speeds, did they put the hump back nubs on it? (little nubs on the blades) Its suppose to really help at lower speeds at a small cost of higher speed performance.

[BackBlast]

That was part of my concern, which is why I posted it here. I think solar is very interesting. I'd like to learn more about it, but just haven't spent the time yet.

I'd like to get a gird tie system with battery backup. My understanding is the battery is the most expensive part and so I'd like to slowly add batteries and panels. In Vegas we have plenty of sun...


Slowly adding panels is fine. Slowly adding batteries can be problematic. Conventional wisdom is that lead acid cells should be aged together and don't like new cells being thrown in. I believe that is for a series set though. If you stuck to 12v, or 24v and always buy a set up to your voltage you'd be okay.

Or you can use a different chemistry like LiFePO4 (and I'd recommend it, though it's up front cost is higher it's life time costs are lower depending on your useage) that doesn't have that issue.

[BackBlast]

I hear every few months that someone is "just about" to come out with an inexpensive solar roof tiles. That sure would be nice.

I would call most of the pronouncements FUD. We'll never see 99% of the "announcements". I'd only look at what is currently on the market.

Brandon

[KF7EEC]

I would call most of the pronouncements FUD. We'll never see 99% of the "announcements". I'd only look at what is currently on the market.

Brandon

I agree. It would still be nice if it ever happened.