handcart

[centerpole]

Some late handcart companys were caught in the mountains in winter conditions.
Do we have better equipment to face similar conditions, to camp and travel on foot with a family.

[KF7EEC]

welcome on LDSGlo!

[JayE]

Good question and welcome to the site with your first post.

For me and my family, we are having a hard enough time with items that are higher on our priority list. I don't know if we'll ever need a handcart, or other similar items to travel on foot through all kinds of weather. If we had all other necessary things in order first and money to spend, then we might consider some of those items. We have tried to have good quality camping equipment and other supplies for any possible long term survival needs, but we really cannot predict the future. We don't exactly know what we will need. So, the best we can do is to follow the counsel that the prophets have given us. I have not yet seen any counsel from the prophet about being prepared to travel on foot through all kinds of weather. If I do, then that will quickly move further up our priority list.

[DMGNUT]

Welcome aboard from your friendly neighborhood Drunk Machine Gunners Club.
I understand your concern/interest. Kind of like the cool old gear they use at the Mountain Man Rendezvous.
As a convert it was mine and my wife's great pleasure to be a Ma and Pa on our Stake's Hand Cart Trek (a couple years ago).
Wonderful experience, but really illustrated the point that I'd really not enjoy having to use the tools/gear from the days of old.
Not that I don't appreciate good solid stuff that was really built to last from the days of old.
But all else being the same, I'll stick with my F250 Super Duty 4x4 with 50 gallons of gas, and an AR-15... instead of a hand cart and a muzzle loader.

Thanks again for jumping in the deep end with us. :a0 (15):

[sarge712]

Like Jay said, focus on what the Prophet says to have on hand and stay flexible.

I have a game hauler (for hauling deer, bear & wild pig out of the woods) that I can also use for moving gear & little kids or injured long distances. The military uses rolling litters somewhat like a game hauler for moving wounded soldiers across the battlefield.

Failing that, I once read an Orson Scott Card short story (cant recall the title) about the collapse of society. In that story the main characters took two bikes and braced them together with 2x4's & a sheet of plywood somehow to make a 4 wheeled pushcart to haul people & things. This winter when things slow down I plan to try it out using only stuff I can "acquire" (not having to buy anything & using only available materials). I will post photos & my T&E report.

My plan is to hunker down. If I have to go anywhere it will be only the 7 miles to my in-laws. Unless THE Prophets orders us, through proper channels, to hoof it, I plan on staying in the relatively safe embrace of the Smoky Mountains.

[signseeker]

I don't think it was their equipment that led to them getting stuck late in the mountains. Be that as it may...

We have backpacks to carry stuff... I went that route because I wanted my hands free for holding kiddo's if need be.

My plan is also to hunker down. If the situation is really this bad, I doubt there will be much communication from Salt Lake about it. You'll need to stand by your own light and know how to receive answers to prayer.

If your plan includes a possible bug out situation, I would tailor my equipment to suit that terrain and distance. Bugging out "randomly" is not an option for me... just "taking off somewhere" is a bad idea in my opinion. I would stay put unless you have a destination and plan in place. That's just me.

[sarge712]

I agree, sign. You gotta have a plan. The random wanderer thing is great for a Clint Eastwood western but not for real life.

[ghostcat]

When I was younger bugging out on foot was an option. Now that I'm disabled it is impractical in all but the most dire of circumstances. (I'm only good for a few hundred steps at most) I am resigned to the fact that if evacuation is required and no functioning vehicles are available that I am most likely toast.

[signseeker]

Bugging out on foot I think would be hard for anyone except those in great physical condition who also have no small children or any other family members with issues. Really, cuts out quite a lot of us, ghostcat.

[Justme]

"But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give such in those days!" Mark 13:17

[centerpole]

I am really looking for the best kind of equipment to to travel with a family on foot in any weather.

It is a separate question if the outfit would be needed, but some families do this for fun mostly in summer.

The game cart would do the carry job and if it has only one wheel it could travel on single track trails.

A fire is mandatory in the cold but it has to be inside the tent. The outside fires used by the handcart companys did not cut it in a blizzard.

[sarge712]

Look up Kifaru tents https://kifaru.net/stoves2009.html

I have their teepee and their collapsible stove. It works great inside the teepee. Both are expedition quality.

Its used all over the world and, for me, most notably at the US Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center up near Yosemite, CA.

[DMGNUT]

Cool site Sarge, thanks for posting it.

[Earthling]

I am learning about some cool things available now since my husband took up hiking as a hobby. He got this real cool waterproof, breathable, very light weight jacket that is awesome. We got caught in a downpour on a trip and my regular jacket started leaking through the seams - he stayed dry & warm. He even has a cover that goes over his backpack to keep it dry. They retail around $100 but you can get them cheaper if you keep an eye out. I got one (Columbia) on clearance through Cabella's catalog for $20 a few weeks ago.

[centerpole]

Look up Kifaru tents https://kifaru.net/stoves2009.html

I have their teepee and their collapsible stove. It works great inside the teepee. Both are expedition quality.

Its used all over the world and, for me, most notably at the US Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center up near Yosemite, CA.

I have to admit at this point that my hobby is experimenting and making woodstoves and tarp shelters.
I am always on the lookout for a better idea. Kifaru and Titaniuum Goat are the only ones I know of that make light weight stoves with chimneys and shelters for sale. I think I have answers to some of the problems that these outfits have and will get into it later in the meantime I am looking for fresh ideas.

My choice right now for carrying the gear is the bicycle. It can travel on single track trails and carry lots of weight. The North Viet Nam army moved tons of war materials into the south by bicycle. A bike loaded with maybe 200 lbs of stuff, rigged with a handlebar extention so a person could walk beside, steer and push.

[Justme]

When you said bicycle I first envisioned one of those set ups the native Americans used with a pole on each side of a horse, skins stretched between to carry supplies. Not sure how that could be rigged on a bicycle though.

[signseeker]

Holy krap, I just got it!

TIPI CITIES!!! :w00t:

:svengo:

[ghostcat]

Holy krap, I just got it!

TIPI CITIES!!! :w00t:

:svengo:
Well Duh!!!! :wink5:

[centerpole]

Tipis worked great for the Indians to let the smoke out.
We have steel chimneys now to do the job.
We do not need the high peak of the tipi design when a chimney is used, in fact it wastes space, tent material and heat.
It is easy to use a tarp for a heated shelter, in summer it can be pitched as a shade no walls. In winter pitched nailed down completely closed in, blizzard proof
A chimney does not have to be longer than 40" for a sit down 2-4 man shelter.

[Harm]

The problem centerpole is that, especially in the church, most of us would be traveling with kids. I've got 3(almost 4) plus my wife who sometimes struggles with mobility.

The other issue is that handcarts and gear you can "lug" is GREAT! If you are FLEEING something or FLEEING to something. Otherwise you will be the carcass of warning on the side of the trail others will see and turn back from. The pioneers had a great deal of problems because they had to get to SLC early enough to plant crops because they didn't have enough food to last. Its very impractical to carry enough food for more than a few months (I'd say weeks is pushing it!).

1200 pounds of grain for a years supply. Thats tough to carry or pack for 1 person, let alone 2 or 3 or 4.

Family size is also the problem with just a small tarp tent (especially in colder weather), mormons don't usually have small families.

Thats where something like the tipi comes into its own. BTW Sarge - those tipis ROCK! Just wish I could afford one! Family camping trips would never be the same!

I was sort of given an outfitters tent from one of the Avow(ers). I say given because it was purchased in my name, I picked it up. But its not in my possession at the moment.

Meh. I live in the desert. My food storage is here. My big issue is Water. Thats 2011's goal.

[sarge712]

Yeah I had a small bit of cash left me by a favorite aunt so I bought some guns, ammo and a Kifaru teepee/stove combo. It works great. After using it a few times I could make one myself out of an old parachute. Mine is one of the older models when they only came in white. I need to camo mine up.

[Harm]

Man I gotta stop looking at that website or I'm going to end up dropping my tax return (fingers crossed) on that instead of the Cistern that I need to. :d0 (8):

[DMGNUT]

Yeah I had a small bit of cash left me by a favorite aunt so I bought some guns, ammo and a Kifaru teepee/stove combo. It works great. After using it a few times I could make one myself out of an old parachute. Mine is one of the older models when they only came in white. I need to camo mine up.

I sure would like your thoughts or plans on making one of these Kifaru teepees out of a parachute. I just picked up a 32' diameter cargo chute with all the para cord still attached.

[sarge712]

Well it has an extendable central pole with pegs and tiedowns around the outside to stabilize it. I will set mine up and photo it for you. Maybe Saturday. I need to check it anyway because I suspect my son put it up damp last time.

[centerpole]

A tipi or tarp can be any size that is needed the chimney as long as needed to accomodate as many people as needed that is not the issue here.

I am impressed with your support for the tipi shape even with its flaws.

I will state briefly here other improvements I have made on what is on the market for a heated shelter. I will then give the subject a rest, if any one is interested they can PM me.

I have:
1. Eliminated the need to carry a separate centerpole my chimney will bear the weight of the tarp so the chimney is the centerpole.

2. Eliminated the need for a spark arrestor or damper no sparks come from my chimney to burn holes in the tent.

3.Made the cooktop hotter than the chimney, a lot of heat goes up the chimney with kifaru the chimney gets red hot not the cook top.

4. Use a vertical stove so fires can be burned from the top down ( gassifier).

5. My stove is suspended on the chimney and the chimney sits on a 2 or 3 ft piece of wood which makes a better base that rides on snow with out melting it.

6. I have a cone shaped bottom on the stove with a small grate to regulate the rate of burn (temperature). I can burn one piece of wood at a time to have the stove on simmer.

Thats all I can think of right now my son is after me to help haul hay bales.

[Harm]

There are benefits to it though.


For instance it appears rather easy to set up.


There should be both weight and size savings compared to many other types of tents.


Sturdy, any long term use it should also hold up better than most regular tarps.
But to each there own. Its all good, thats why we get to choose. Same as guns. Which is where it gets REALLY fun!

[DMGNUT]

Well it has an extendable central pole with pegs and tie-downs around the outside to stabilize it. I will set mine up and photo it for you. Maybe Saturday. I need to check it anyway because I suspect my son put it up damp last time.

Nooooo.

I'd really like to see several pics. Thanks Sarge.

[sarge712]

I have to take rain check till later in the week on the photos. My wife had to have emergency gall bladder surgery and I'm sitting in her room waiting for her to get back from the O.R.
I spent all day Saturday at the E.R. so I didn't get any Saturday projects done. She scared the shenanigans outta me. We thought it was her appendix at first.

[KF7EEC]

I have to take rain check till later in the week on the photos. My wife had to have emergency gall bladder surgery and I'm sitting in her room waiting for her to get back from the O.R.
I spent all day Saturday at the E.R. so I didn't get any Saturday projects done. She scared the shenanigans outta me. We thought it was her appendix at first.

all of us here at GLO hope she has a speedy recovery!

[Noahs ARK]

I have to take rain check till later in the week on the photos. My wife had to have emergency gall bladder surgery and I'm sitting in her room waiting for her to get back from the O.R.
I spent all day Saturday at the E.R. so I didn't get any Saturday projects done. She scared the shenanigans outta me. We thought it was her appendix at first.

OMGosh - hope all is well. Praying for a speedy recovery!

[DMGNUT]

Our prayers for a speedy and complete recovery are with her.

[signseeker]

So if she has her gall bladder out, does that mean she has to be a vegetarian now?

Wishing you and the whole family all the best.

[sarge712]

Thank you all. No on the vegetarianism but its not far from it. She has to avoid as much fat as she can and that eliminates most meats and 3/4 of our Southern diet though we ate pretty clean to begin with. Looks like a lot of fish and broiled stuff is in our future. The doc said to gradually allow regular foods over the next 3-4 weeks to allow her liver time to "learn" to process the fats in her diet. Typically of my Julie, she is looking at it in a positive light and considering it a great help to eating healthier.

[ghostcat]

Thank you all. No on the vegetarianism but its not far from it. She has to avoid as much fat as she can and that eliminates most meats and 3/4 of our Southern diet though we ate pretty clean to begin with. Looks like a lot of fish and broiled stuff is in our future. The doc said to gradually allow regular foods over the next 3-4 weeks to allow her liver time to "learn" to process the fats in her diet. Typically of my Julie, she is looking at it in a positive light and considering it a great help to eating healthier.
That is interesting! I had my Gall Bladder taken out about 20 years ago and they told me that there were no restrictions on my diet. They said that since all that it did was store the bile that the liver produced that unless I ate unusual amounts of fats that the liver could keep up. I'm glad she is doing well!

[sarge712]

I know nothing about the gall bladder. Thats just what the surgeon told me post op. I hope she can eat what we eat or she will starve :laugh: